England players and selection discussion thread

[FBU]

Would imagine he will be part of the squads for Windies tour now then. Could well come from nowhere and claim a world cup and ashes spot.

@Cricket_Ali


Update on Jofra Archer ... looking like he will have met the criteria for England qualification some time around mid-March 2019 (so effectively rules out Caribbean tour). Yet to reach 210 days in his third year of residency and is committed to overseas T20 spells this winter

 

[Adders]

Medium-term, I'd go something along these lines (with the obvious opening batsman Wheel of Mediocrity caveat):

1. Burns
2. Jennings
3. Bairstow
4. Root *
5. Stokes
6. Buttler
7. Moeen
8. Foakes +
9. Curran/Woakes
10. Broad
11. Anderson

12. Leach

Yep, that's the side IMO.

It's really really tough to sit out one of Curran/Woakes though and I'm desperate to see them both play, 100% Broad must start the Ashes (anyone saying otherwise is mental) but he must know that with one of those guy's breathing down his neck he needs to be performing as his reputation is not enough to keep getting him picked anymore. My gut feel is that he will rise to the challenge and that the Aussies may well get to see the best of Stuart Broad again next summer.

 

[Tom Flint]

Yep, that's the side IMO.

It's really really tough to sit out one of Curran/Woakes though and I'm desperate to see them both play, 100% Broad must start the Ashes (anyone saying otherwise is mental) but he must know that with one of those guy's breathing down his neck he needs to be performing as his reputation is not enough to keep getting him picked anymore. My gut feel is that he will rise to the challenge and that the Aussies may well get to see the best of Stuart Broad again next summer.

I hope your right

 

[Dan]

Curran and Woakes will both play together fairly shortly. Surely Jimmeh is done after the 2019 Ashes, right?

Couple of years of Broad-Curran-Woakes until Broad goes too, and Archer-Curran-Woakes takes over as a fairly strong option. If more quicks appear or are resurgent or force their way in, all the better for England.

**** me Woakes needs to take some overseas poles though. That'll hurt them.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Curran and Woakes will both play together fairly shortly. Surely Jimmeh is done after the 2019 Ashes, right?

Couple of years of Broad-Curran-Woakes until Broad goes too, and Archer-Curran-Woakes takes over as a fairly strong option. If more quicks appear or are resurgent or force their way in, all the better for England.

**** me Woakes needs to take some overseas poles though. That'll hurt them.

Jimmy should outlast Broad on current form surely

 

[Adders]

Bloke can't go on forever. But the thought of life after Jimmy is pretty ****ing scary tbh........will be the biggest loss to England in the last 40 odd years probably.

 

[Howe_zat]

Jofra Archer is getting hyped up even more than Chris Jordan was.

 

[Howe_zat]

Bloke can't go on forever. But the thought of life after Jimmy is pretty ****ing scary tbh........will be the biggest loss to England in the last 40 odd years probably.

I expect so since he is England's best player since Beefy and he is actually going out at the top of his game if he goes next year.

When I looked up the stats from our last few home summers to compare the allrounders, Anderson's statline is 102 wickets at 15.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Jofra Archer is getting hyped up even more than Chris Jordan was.

I never saw the big deal with Jordan. Hoped he would be better than he was but he wasn't. If you had to move from Surrey as Dernbach was ahead of you then you aren't that good.

As for Archer, he has a great first class record, the hype is coming from that. Only time will tell if can do the same at a higher level.

 

[Howe_zat]

He'll soon be hyped up even more than Mark Wood was if we're not careful.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

He'll soon be hyped up even more than Mark Wood was if we're not careful.

Anyone is better than him so that is fine.

 

[theegyptian]

Archer damn should have more hype than Wood or Jordan. Archer is way ahead of where Wood or Jordan were at similar ages in their career. Archer is already close to overtaking Wood's first class wicket haul, having only played little more than two seasons of fc cricket. Archer has had good seasons in the IPL and the Big Bash.

George Garton is an example of a player with the hype above his actual current ability. Garton got a lot of press last winter when he got a brief unwarranted callup to the ashes squad to cover for injuries. He has a good top speed. Unfortunately he isn't accurate, he hasn't done anything in professional cricket and anyone who had watched realised he couldn't sustain his pace across a spell and across a day's play. He also is injury prone at the moment. He's a good prospect but no more.

Archer for two reasons should be very useful to England. He can bowl 20+ overs in a day whilst keeping up decent pace. This is rare in an English bowler, especially for somone so young. Wood's a good example of someone who averages 86mph in first spell and then 81 by the third spell of the day. Wood won't have bowled 20 overs in a day very regularly. Archer regularly put out 20+ overs in a day for Sussex in 2017 whilst not losing pace across the day.

He can really crank the pace up if required. He has a good bouncer and yorker and gets good bounce which are going to be good for getting out tailenders. He'll have the ability of getting out good batsman on good wickets due to his pace. England tend to produce the medium fast accurate guy with good skills with the dukes ball. Archer isn't massively skilled with the red ball. He tends to angle the ball in which statistically is less effective that swinging it away. He'll have to work on his skills.

It's the contrast to the rest of the bowlers that England produce that will make Archer valuable, especially away from home on flatter wickets imo. Add in his reasonable tail end batting and good fielding (when motivated) and he's a good package.

I'd happily take the over on Archer to take 50 test wickets (assuming he doesn't just decide to play 20 over stuff).

 

[Gremlin]

Curran and Woakes will both play together fairly shortly. Surely Jimmeh is done after the 2019 Ashes, right?

Couple of years of Broad-Curran-Woakes until Broad goes too, and Archer-Curran-Woakes takes over as a fairly strong option. If more quicks appear or are resurgent or force their way in, all the better for England.

**** me Woakes needs to take some overseas poles though. That'll hurt them.

It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that in a post Anderson / Broad era that Archer could be batting at number 11 for England... current FC average of 31... I know you should never pick a bowler for his batting but England's strong tail would have an even bigger kick to it!

 

[flibbertyjibber]

It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that in a post Anderson / Broad era that Archer could be batting at number 11 for England... current FC average of 31... I know you should never pick a bowler for his batting but England's strong tail would have an even bigger kick to it!

Think he will end up at 9, Leach will be the number 10 and we will find an out and out bowler for 11. Curran long term will be higher than 8.

 

[wpdavid]

Medium-term, I'd go something along these lines (with the obvious opening batsman Wheel of Mediocrity caveat):

1. Burns
2. Jennings
3. Bairstow
4. Root *
5. Stokes
6. Buttler
7. Moeen
8. Foakes +
9. Curran/Woakes
10. Broad
11. Anderson

12. Leach

Agreed with the side but I'd have a minor quibble over batting order from 7 to 9. Nowadays Moeen bats behind Foakes and Curran. Maybe ahead of Woakes though. Foakes a kind of safety net at 7 when the top order goes cheaply.

 

[marc71178]

Nah, Moeen is still a better batsman then Curran.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah, Moeen is still a better batsman then Curran.

Yeah he should definitely not be batting ahead of Foakes (I would argue that Foakes should not be selected if he's deemed not good enough to bat ahead of Moeen, given Buttler and Bairstow are in the side as well) but for all Curran's promise with the bat and encouraging first few Tests he still doesn't actually have a First Class ton yet, so I'd still bat Moeen ahead of him.

Given the binary choice between Moeen batting ahead of Foakes or below Curran I'd take the latter though.

 

[Howe_zat]

Yeah he should definitely not be batting ahead of Foakes (I would argue that Foakes should not be selected if he's deemed not good enough to bat ahead of Moeen, given Buttler and Bairstow are in the side as well) but for all Curran's promise with the bat and encouraging first few Tests he still doesn't actually have a First Class ton yet, so I'd still bat Moeen ahead of him.

Given the binary choice between Moeen batting ahead of Foakes or below Curran I'd take the latter though.

You're assuming that the England batting order is somehow based on batting quality. This ignores what it actually is based on, which is a mixture of Innovative Batting Solutions and fear of voodoo.

 

[Prince EWS]

You're assuming that the England batting order is somehow based on batting quality. This ignores what it actually is based on, which is a mixture of Innovative Batting Solutions and fear of voodoo.

Haha, true. I like to think it's still quality-based from about seven down though.

 

[Groundking]

Moeen's record at 7 is actually pretty good, 963 runs @ 41.86.