England Performance Squad

[Pup Clarke]

I don't want to sound like having pace means you're a great bowler, of course it doesn't, but I'm sure his pace will add a little penetration to our samey attack, providing his control has improved.

Flintoff's always hostile, Broad's sharp enough and Anderson as skd stated is maybe fractionally below Mahmood's pace. Top international batsman won't be beaten for pace by 90mph.

 

[Richard]

I found it a bit strange that Davies was taken to WI, didn't get a chance but Foster is now ahead of him

Yeah that makes precious little sense either. I don't have an issue with Foster being the current third-choice, not at all - in fact I think in many ways he has a better case for being first-choice than either Ambrose or Prior - but... well, we should've long since abandoned any hope of consistency of selection. Since Duncan Fletcher's departure that's gone completely and totally out of the window.

 

[Richard]

Flintoff's always hostile, Broad's sharp enough and Anderson as skd stated is maybe fractionally below Mahmood's pace. Top international batsman won't be beaten for pace by 90mph.

Of course they won't, but the thing is, Mahmood can get the ball to do plenty. The reason any hope being held-out for him is expecting far too much is because a bowler as wayward as he is and always has been simply has virtually no hope of ever coming close to the requistite accuracy. It's amazing that anyone believes it possible, never mind likely.

It's rare to see a bowler as bad as Mahmood at Test\ODI level. Generally, those that bad don't get to county level, never mind beyond. It simply takes utterly brainless selection to let it happen.

 

[Prince EWS]

Mahmood can be exceptionally sharp, that's no myth. Perhaps not every spell, but when everything's right and his rythmn's good, he'll be around 90 mph.

So very ocassionally, but hardly regularly, Mahmood bowls quicker than your average Test seamer.. but even then he can't land it on the cut strip and doesn't take any wickets. Yep, awesome prospect! If he can't take his wickets at better than 35 a piece for Lancashire he's not going to do it for England either, regardless of how quickly he does or doesn't bowl.

Only when you have several cricketers performing at First Class level should you actually try to "guess" which attributes would translate to Test cricket and which wouldn't. If someone's not performing domestically and essentially never really has over the course of a decently long career, expecting them to perform internationally is frankly stupid.

 

[Woodster]

Flintoff's always hostile, Broad's sharp enough and Anderson as skd stated is maybe fractionally below Mahmood's pace. Top international batsman won't be beaten for pace by 90mph.

Flintoff is top drawer, no doubt. However, the Caribbean showed a lack of penetration on dead pitches and the need for that something extra, like pace. We didn't need to remove a top international batsmen by bowling 90mph, we needed to to remove Daren Powell to win a Test!!

 

[Woodster]

Of course they won't, but the thing is, Mahmood can get the ball to do plenty. The reason any hope being held-out for him is expecting far too much is because a bowler as wayward as he is and always has been simply has virtually no hope of ever coming close to the requistite accuracy. It's amazing that anyone believes it possible, never mind likely.

It's rare to see a bowler as bad as Mahmood at Test\ODI level. Generally, those that bad don't get to county level, never mind beyond. It simply takes utterly brainless selection to let it happen.

Quite clearly I am not alone in thinking Mahmood may still have something to offer England. Rare to see a bowler as bad as Mahmood at Test/ODI level ? Have a word Rich, there are plenty worse than him out there.

 

[Prince EWS]

Flintoff is top drawer, no doubt. However, the Caribbean showed a lack of penetration on dead pitches and the need for that something extra, like pace. We didn't need to remove a top international batsmen by bowling 90mph, we needed to to remove Daren Powell to win a Test!!

Failure to win that Test had nothing to do with a lack of pace and everything to do with not attacking the stumps enough. Lets get real here - even if Saj tried to attack the stumps every ball, he'd probably only make the batsman play once every thirty.

You don't pick someone because they bowl 90mph. You pick someone because they take wickets. Powell wouldn't have walked off the field at the first sight of something slightly quicker; he'd have shouldered arms as he did to virtually everything else in that last season.

 

[Woodster]

So very ocassionally, but hardly regularly, Mahmood bowls quicker than your average Test seamer.. but even then he can't land it on the cut strip and doesn't take any wickets. Yep, awesome prospect! If he can't take his wickets at better than 35 a piece for Lancashire he's not going to do it for England either, regardless of how quickly he does or doesn't bowl.

Only when you have several cricketers performing at First Class level should you actually try to "guess" which attributes would translate to Test cricket and which wouldn't. If someone's not performing domestically and essentially never really has over the course of a decently long career, expecting them to perform internationally is frankly stupid.

I imagine a lot of opinion formed here is on the basis that Mahmood was a pretty average player a few seasons back. I doubt many have seen him bowl moer than a few overs here and there on the tele, so it is all very circumspect. I'm not suggesting I've seen masses of him recently, but what I have seen, in County games also, gives me reason to suggest that he still has something to offer.

He has yet to deliver anything of great note for Lancs, and when he was selected for England initially, much was based on potential. That is probably still the case, in the hope he becomes the top player perhaps he attributes suggest. Now, I'm not saying we should pick him for the Test series against WI necessarily, but I do expect him to exceed his performances in the past few CC seasons.

 

[Woodster]

Failure to win that Test had nothing to do with a lack of pace and everything to do with not attacking the stumps enough. Lets get real here - even if Saj tried to attack the stumps every ball, he'd probably only make the batsman play once every thirty.

You don't pick someone because they bowl 90mph. You pick someone because they take wickets. Powell wouldn't have walked off the field at the first sight of something slightly quicker; he'd have shouldered arms as he did to virtually everything else in that last season.

You don't pick someone because they bowl 90 mph ?? Pretty sure I've said that a few times in my previous posts!

We lacked penetration on dead pitches, end of. Now you're clearly not a fan of Mahmood, therefore anything I say on what he would bring to the side will inevitably be rebuffed by your good self.

Now in English conditions we may well get away with the likes of Broad and Anderson (who has bowled very well recently) and co, running through a side, but we need alternatives for other conditions.

 

[Prince EWS]

I imagine a lot of opinion formed here is on the basis that Mahmood was a pretty average player a few seasons back

Nah, this is actually one of my pet hates. If a young player has a really good start to their career and genuinely looks the part (like Siddle, for example), it's almost acceptable to throw them in before they actually prove themselves. Almost. But under no circumstances is it acceptable to pick someone on basically nothing just because they have one or two favourable attributes. He's not the most awful county cricketer of all time but at no point should he have been in consideration for England and I reckon I'm sure I'd hold the exact same opinion right now had I never seen him bowl. He didn't have a good record when they picked him the first time, he doesn't have a good record now and he doesn't even have a good recent record. He's just a random selectors' favourite.

I do expect him to exceed his performances in the past few CC seasons.

When he does, by all means bump this thread. Until then though he should be regarded as **** and should most certainly not be in the performance squad. They should at least rename it to something other than the "performance squad" as it quite clearly has nothing to do with performance at all if Saj is in it.

 

[Woodster]

Bob Willis perhaps puts it better than me :

"Still, it is a blow for the selectors whose hunt for an alternative pace option to Steve Harmison goes on. Aside from Jones, Sajid Mahmood is just about the only other English-qualified bowler on the county circuit with any genuine pace.

That's why they have to look at him again. No-one covered themselves with any glory for the Lions over the winter but reports suggest that Mahmood was the best of that crop. (Remember Scaly stats may at times be mis-leading!)

If he can just get his wrist action sorted out he could be a threat this summer because he has a very whippy, potentially very good bowling action."

 

[Prince EWS]

You don't pick someone because they bowl 90 mph ?? Pretty sure I've said that a few times in my previous posts!

There is no other reason for backing Mahmood, though, because he doesn't have any other favourable attributes over other bowlers, he doesn't have a good record and he didn't have a good 2008 season.

 

[Prince EWS]

You don't pick someone because they bowl 90 mph ?? Pretty sure I've said that a few times in my previous posts!

Yet you've backed the Willis quote which says the exact opposite...

Bob Willis perhaps puts it better than me :

Sajid Mahmood is just about the only other English-qualified bowler on the county circuit with any genuine pace. That's why they have to look at him again.

I honestly don't care if Mahmood bowls at 460mph and swings it around corners - if it's not working in county cricket against prank-batsmen, it's not going to work in Tests either.

 

[Woodster]

When he does, by all means bump this thread. Until then though he should be regarded as **** and should most certainly not be in the performance squad. They should at least rename it to something other than the "performance squad" as it quite clearly has nothing to do with performance at all if Saj is in it.

Yes you're right, bump the thread when it happens, because at the moment is only a prediction (and a wild one at that according to some of you). I'm hoping this year that potential becomes something more.

 

[Woodster]

Yet you've backed the Willis quote which says the exact opposite...




I honestly don't care if Mahmood bowls at 460mph and swings it around corners - if it's not working in county cricket against prank-batsmen, it's not going to work in Tests either.

We need penetration! Pace is very handy in that respect. You need more than pace alone, pretty sure Bob's aware of that. Also, looking at another player again is very different to selecting one, how can you judge someone if you don't look at them!!

 

[FBU]

Flintoff's always hostile, Broad's sharp enough and Anderson as skd stated is maybe fractionally below Mahmood's pace. Top international batsman won't be beaten for pace by 90mph.

No they can practice against a bowling machine at 90mph plus. I thing creating pressure at whatever speed is more useful in picking up wickets.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Bob Willis perhaps puts it better than me :

"Still, it is a blow for the selectors whose hunt for an alternative pace option to Steve Harmison goes on. Aside from Jones, Sajid Mahmood is just about the only other English-qualified bowler on the county circuit with any genuine pace.

That's why they have to look at him again. No-one covered themselves with any glory for the Lions over the winter but reports suggest that Mahmood was the best of that crop. (Remember Scaly stats may at times be mis-leading!)

If he can just get his wrist action sorted out he could be a threat this summer because he has a very whippy, potentially very good bowling action."

That would be the reports from the media that for some bizarre reason loves Mahmood while everyone who *actually* knows a bit about cricket say he's crap and not good enough. Perhaps the media have got bored of ripping into Harmison at every opportunity and want to build up a new victim.

With Mahmood it's always ifs and buts. It was the same years ago. It's the same now.

 

[FBU]

Flintoff is top drawer, no doubt. However, the Caribbean showed a lack of penetration on dead pitches and the need for that something extra, like pace. We didn't need to remove a top international batsmen by bowling 90mph, we needed to to remove Daren Powell to win a Test!!

Edwards had pace, but 9 wickets in 4 Tests at 54.88 econ 3.91 s/r 84.2 meant the batsmen also liked the pace.

As for Mahmood being the best of the crop in New Zealand mentioned in another post I can't see how

9 wickets at 17.77 econ 2.90 for Davies is quite a bit different from
5 wickets at 39.00 econ 4.43 from Mahmood and in the one day games he went wicketless.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Edwards had pace, but 9 wickets in 4 Tests at 54.88 econ 3.91 s/r 84.2 meant the batsmen also liked the pace.

Edwards caused a lot more problems than that average though and had some chances dropped and near misses. The most unfortunate bowler of the series, surely. The point there is that Edwards generally directed his pace well. Edwards is no great bowler, but he's certainly better than Mahmood, who may have pace, but generally no direction.

 

[dothestrand]

Edwards looked better than his figures because he made Pietersen hop about at the crease, but he never caused genuine problems.

What England lack, in fact, is a Taylor-esque bowler - quick and skiddy. We have enough back of a length bowlers who are afraid to pitch it up. Mahmood's probably not the answer, but no doubt he'll play against Durham and the selectors will see how he fares. How Davies has been overlooked after his efforts in NZ, I will never know. If he's not quick enough, don't bother sending him on a Lions tour. And now Finn's injured, this would have been an opportunity to check him out. But Bresnan?