Mr Mxyzptlk
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Fear not. 'Tis only my pathetic attempt at sarcastic humour.vishnureddy said:
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England ODI squad
- Thread starter Eclipse
- Start date
chris.hinton
International Captain
I think it a good Squad i am Glad that there are 2 worcester lads in the side, and Rikki Clarke will be a great for England (Neil Pickup must be sick)
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Hope you mean Kabir and not Mohammad:Ovishnureddy said:
PY
International Coach
I think Rik was meaning that he doesn't mind how people make the runs i.e. edges, cowshots, over-the-top shots, slogs etc etc, not referring to how quickly people make the runs.......if he did say that then I'd be inclined to mock his intelligence :PRich2001 said:Right! Can we hold you to that?
So when a batsman scores say 50 from 100 balls, you wont complain about a poor S/R :P
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Bring back NasserRich2001 said:Right! Can we hold you to that?
So when a batsman scores say 50 from 100 balls, you wont complain about a poor S/R :P
Neil Pickup
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Rikki Clarke will be a great for England?chris.hinton said:
Is that in the same way that the 1st Test last week was a washout?
Go on, give me some good reasons as to why he will be a great.
Yeah, he looks to be a batsman with good potential who could play a fifth or sixth bowler's role, and he scored 200 runs inside three innings. So did Chris Bassano, and he did that in two innings, and where is he now? Still playing in the back of beyond, that's where.
How many runs has Clarke scored this season?
Would he be in the squad if he played for Glamorgan?
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Either way Hollioake stays out...luckyeddie said:
Bazza
International 12th Man
Before I read all the other replies, I thought I'd just comment on the squad:
Michael Vaughan (capt), Marcus Trescothick, Vikram Solanki, Anthony McGrath, Robert Key, Andrew Flintoff, Chris Read (wk), Richard Johnson, Darren Gough, Ashley Giles, James Anderson, Steve Harmison, Rikki Clarke, Jim Troughton, Kabir Ali.
Vaughan, Trescothick, Flintoff, Giles, Anderson fit into the no surprises category.
Then there are another number of categories.
Surprise call ups IMO include Solanki (he was a surprise and a failure the first time around, and for me hasn't done anything of note since, not to mention being a better FC cricketer probably), who has a List A average of 27 and looked really out of depth for me 3 years ago.
McGrath was a surprise call up in tests and is even less suitable for ODIs IMO. He has been called up on the strength of one good performance against Zimbabwe, which isn't the way to judge players. OK he averages 32 which is more respectable but 19 wickets don't make an allrounder!
Troughton I like. More talented than Ian Bell IMO and more consistency also. Not much of a surprise but a good call all the same.
Robert Key - again what's he doing here? Hasn't performed yet in tests, and for me he's more likely to succeed there than in the one day game. I don't think he has what it takes.
Chris Read - top choice. I've been pushing for his recall all along and he's always been the most suitable replacement for Stewart IMO. Sound keeper and useful bat, with plenty of time on his side, I hope he grasps this opportunity and makes himself first in line for the test job when Stewart calls it a day altogether.
Richard Johnson - A strange one. Again he seems more of a test player (should have had an opportunity by now, especially ahead of the likes of Harmison), yet pretty ordinary performances throughout his career in List A. Still, hope he gets a chance and pushes his claims for a test spot, assuming he doesn't get a chance before then of course!
Darren Gough - had to be for mine, yet some people might be so fed up waiting for his return that they feel we should just forget him and move on. That seems to be the position with Thorpe, though I hope not. He'd do a much better job than Key or McGrath or Solanki for me. In fact there's so much inexperience in this squad I'm worried they'll take a beating from the likes of Pakistan and SA. Reminds me of the team we sent to Zimbabwe 18 months ago, which is fine except ZImbabwe are not Pakistan or SA!!
Harmison - I think everyone knows my thoughts on him. Shouldn't be allowed near a cricket pitch, not that he threatens to trouble it very often! :P
Rikki Clarke - Oh dear. No doubt there should have been a Surrey allrounder in the squad, but personally I'd take someone with 14000 runs and a FC batting average of 40, as well as 300+ List A wickets and 23 hauls of 4 or more wickets, as opposed to someone with a bowling average of 45 and who only bowls 4 overs a game for Surrey due to his econ of nearly 6 per over.
Kabir Ali - Deserves a chance although hasn't had a great start to the season and didn't impress over the winter, albeit with limited opportunities.
So altogether I think the selectors have bowed too much to pressure of picking a young squad. They should learn from Australia (who often debut players in their late 20's or even 30's, and rarely particularly young), and people like Alec Stewart, who debuted at 27 and has been one of the best players in the world for 13 years, or Michael Vaughan, who debuted at 25 and has developed into one of the worlds best batsmen.
For some reason there is an obsession with the idea that if you debut a player at 21 they become a better player in the long run and a lengthy career to boot, but I think this is false. In fact players who debut at 25-29 are often better for it and can still play for 10 years at the highest level, the exception maybe being fast bowlers who might be finished by 32-34 typically.
This squad looks desperately thin on experience and in some cases, the class required to succeed at international level. A likely lineup could be:
Vaughan
Trescothick
McGrath/Solanki/Key/Troughton (3 from)
Flintoff
Read
Giles
Gough
Anderson
Johnson/Ali/Harmison (1 from)
That lineup has Trescothick as a classy opener, Flintoff a proven allrounder, Giles a solid spinner and Anderson an exciting young fast bowler. Then it has Vaughan who is starting to show consistency but is unproven in ODIs and captaining for the first time (a whole new pressure), 3 middle order batsmen probably making debut or with negligible experience. This could easily mean batting collapse after batting collapse. Then you have Gough who's been injured for nearly 2 years and another bowler making debut or H*******.
OK maybe I'm being really negative, and I know it was always going to be a new era (4 players retired including captain), but a few more experienced heads would have helped. Guess we'll just have to see how it goes, and hopefully I'll have to eat my words on a few points!!
Michael Vaughan (capt), Marcus Trescothick, Vikram Solanki, Anthony McGrath, Robert Key, Andrew Flintoff, Chris Read (wk), Richard Johnson, Darren Gough, Ashley Giles, James Anderson, Steve Harmison, Rikki Clarke, Jim Troughton, Kabir Ali.
Vaughan, Trescothick, Flintoff, Giles, Anderson fit into the no surprises category.
Then there are another number of categories.
Surprise call ups IMO include Solanki (he was a surprise and a failure the first time around, and for me hasn't done anything of note since, not to mention being a better FC cricketer probably), who has a List A average of 27 and looked really out of depth for me 3 years ago.
McGrath was a surprise call up in tests and is even less suitable for ODIs IMO. He has been called up on the strength of one good performance against Zimbabwe, which isn't the way to judge players. OK he averages 32 which is more respectable but 19 wickets don't make an allrounder!
Troughton I like. More talented than Ian Bell IMO and more consistency also. Not much of a surprise but a good call all the same.
Robert Key - again what's he doing here? Hasn't performed yet in tests, and for me he's more likely to succeed there than in the one day game. I don't think he has what it takes.
Chris Read - top choice. I've been pushing for his recall all along and he's always been the most suitable replacement for Stewart IMO. Sound keeper and useful bat, with plenty of time on his side, I hope he grasps this opportunity and makes himself first in line for the test job when Stewart calls it a day altogether.
Richard Johnson - A strange one. Again he seems more of a test player (should have had an opportunity by now, especially ahead of the likes of Harmison), yet pretty ordinary performances throughout his career in List A. Still, hope he gets a chance and pushes his claims for a test spot, assuming he doesn't get a chance before then of course!
Darren Gough - had to be for mine, yet some people might be so fed up waiting for his return that they feel we should just forget him and move on. That seems to be the position with Thorpe, though I hope not. He'd do a much better job than Key or McGrath or Solanki for me. In fact there's so much inexperience in this squad I'm worried they'll take a beating from the likes of Pakistan and SA. Reminds me of the team we sent to Zimbabwe 18 months ago, which is fine except ZImbabwe are not Pakistan or SA!!
Harmison - I think everyone knows my thoughts on him. Shouldn't be allowed near a cricket pitch, not that he threatens to trouble it very often! :P
Rikki Clarke - Oh dear. No doubt there should have been a Surrey allrounder in the squad, but personally I'd take someone with 14000 runs and a FC batting average of 40, as well as 300+ List A wickets and 23 hauls of 4 or more wickets, as opposed to someone with a bowling average of 45 and who only bowls 4 overs a game for Surrey due to his econ of nearly 6 per over.
Kabir Ali - Deserves a chance although hasn't had a great start to the season and didn't impress over the winter, albeit with limited opportunities.
So altogether I think the selectors have bowed too much to pressure of picking a young squad. They should learn from Australia (who often debut players in their late 20's or even 30's, and rarely particularly young), and people like Alec Stewart, who debuted at 27 and has been one of the best players in the world for 13 years, or Michael Vaughan, who debuted at 25 and has developed into one of the worlds best batsmen.
For some reason there is an obsession with the idea that if you debut a player at 21 they become a better player in the long run and a lengthy career to boot, but I think this is false. In fact players who debut at 25-29 are often better for it and can still play for 10 years at the highest level, the exception maybe being fast bowlers who might be finished by 32-34 typically.
This squad looks desperately thin on experience and in some cases, the class required to succeed at international level. A likely lineup could be:
Vaughan
Trescothick
McGrath/Solanki/Key/Troughton (3 from)
Flintoff
Read
Giles
Gough
Anderson
Johnson/Ali/Harmison (1 from)
That lineup has Trescothick as a classy opener, Flintoff a proven allrounder, Giles a solid spinner and Anderson an exciting young fast bowler. Then it has Vaughan who is starting to show consistency but is unproven in ODIs and captaining for the first time (a whole new pressure), 3 middle order batsmen probably making debut or with negligible experience. This could easily mean batting collapse after batting collapse. Then you have Gough who's been injured for nearly 2 years and another bowler making debut or H*******.
OK maybe I'm being really negative, and I know it was always going to be a new era (4 players retired including captain), but a few more experienced heads would have helped. Guess we'll just have to see how it goes, and hopefully I'll have to eat my words on a few points!!
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
His call up for ODI's was always on the cards following his selection in the WC30. He's been a useful performer for Yorkshire in recent times.Bazza said:
But can people please get something right about him - he's selected as a batsman who bowls, not an all rounder.
Bazza
International 12th Man
In which case a mediocre county batsmen is not going to scare even Zimbabwe, especially when combined with two other mediocre county batsmen in the middle order, all of whom have little-no experience of international cricket!
Also - forgot to mention the subject of exclusions. Namely Kirtley. The boy is more of a one day bowler than tests, yet he is in the test squad and not one day squad. The selectors seem to have forgotten they were naming an ODI squad and pick FC players (McGrath, Solanki, Key, Johnson).
Also - forgot to mention the subject of exclusions. Namely Kirtley. The boy is more of a one day bowler than tests, yet he is in the test squad and not one day squad. The selectors seem to have forgotten they were naming an ODI squad and pick FC players (McGrath, Solanki, Key, Johnson).
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
I must admit the omission of Kirtley is a strange one, but McGrath's selection is not.
His average is misleading as to the way he plays (rather like the averages of the 2 current openers were misleading when they were first selected, and would anyone even contemplate a team without those 2 now?)
Fletcher has seen something in McGrath that suggests to him he has a better chance of making it at International level than others who have scored a lot of runs at County level.
His average is misleading as to the way he plays (rather like the averages of the 2 current openers were misleading when they were first selected, and would anyone even contemplate a team without those 2 now?)
Fletcher has seen something in McGrath that suggests to him he has a better chance of making it at International level than others who have scored a lot of runs at County level.
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
I agree entirely with Bazza. The guy talks sense, Marc, at the moment you are not. Explain to us please why an average middle order batsman who bowls a bit is a good choice for the ODI side? Because he's proven quality? One good Test against almost pathetic opposition doesn't prove anything. Zimbabwe were even worse than a county team.
On 2nd thoughts...don't bother. It's pointless arguing with a brick wall.
On 2nd thoughts...don't bother. It's pointless arguing with a brick wall.
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chris.hinton
International Captain
The Weather was from a weather.co.uk, also i seen Rikki Clarke and he got good talent, Bassnao is a good player but nowhere near yet.......Neil Pickup said:
Forget this List A rubbish..... McGrath scored 50+ last week in the test and he has not been great in Domestic cricket
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Is it just me, or are other people also getting tired of this McGrath/Harmison "trial". You guys are saying the same thing over and over and over again. Will the defence and the prosecution please just SHUT UP!