England can beat India "every day of week": Gough

[silentstriker]

I take your point but you're still being a little facetious. Indian pitches favour batting heavily and you need to be a much, much better bowler to average 30 there than you do in England, that's undeniable. The extent to which a bowler can adjust to his home conditions is hardly infinite.

Exactly, if indian bowlers can somehow be expected to do well in India while everyone else does **** because somehow they've figured out a Magic Formula to take wickets on roads, India would be on a 100 match winning streak at home.

 

[M0rphin3]

I take your point but you're still being a little facetious. Indian pitches favour batting heavily and you need to be a much, much better bowler to average 30 there than you do in England, that's undeniable. The extent to which a bowler can adjust to his home conditions is hardly infinite.

Awta.

 

[vcs]

No, he grows up on Indian pitches and learns how to bowl successfully in India - the lines and lengths that you need to ball, learning extra skills such as reverse swing, knowing how to bowl tightly to frustrate batsmen when the ball isn't doing much. Zaheer should be better versed in all of that than the likes of Anderson, Morkel and Johnson, who have to learn to do it whilst touring.

Same with English bowlers in English conditions, Australian bowlers in Australian conditions etc. Home bowlers should know the conditions better and be generally able to bowl better on their home decks.

Indian pace bowlers tend to make their name on helpful tracks abroad and take time to grow into effective bowlers in Indian conditions and Zaheer is no exception. I wish it were the other way around, but that's a topic for another thread...

 

[silentstriker]

And then every match at home for every country would result in a home win cause they'd all prepare roads but somehow the home bowlers would be averaging 22 while the opposition 40....

 

[Bun]

No, he grows up on Indian pitches and learns how to bowl successfully in India - the lines and lengths that you need to ball, learning extra skills such as reverse swing, knowing how to bowl tightly to frustrate batsmen when the ball isn't doing much. Zaheer should be better versed in all of that than the likes of Anderson, Morkel and Johnson, who have to learn to do it whilst touring.

Same with English bowlers in English conditions, Australian bowlers in Australian conditions etc. Home bowlers should know the conditions better and be generally able to bowl better on their home decks.

Fair enough.

But the definition of 'decent performance' varies according to the tracks. A bowling average of 25 in South Africa over a sustained period may be equal to 28 in India. In other words, the world's most perfect bowler who can adapt to all conditions will average differently still in different conditions. That is why there exist facts like flat pitch, green pitch, dustbowls etc.

An average of 23 in India is definitely above par at the moment even if it's home conditions.

 

[Blaze 18]

And this is the same GingerFurball who was arguing in one of the other threads that Jacques Kallis deserves more credit than say, a Ricky Ponting because he bats in the most difficult conditions for batsmen. An absolutely ridiculous double standard. (Funny - I was called for 'trolling' for bringing up the rankings. Now if this isn't trolling then I dunno what is).

Just because Zaheer Khan has grown up in India, it doesn't make it any easier to bowl there - flat pitches, the heat etc.

 

[Uppercut]

Exactly, if indian bowlers can somehow be expected to do well in India while everyone else does **** because somehow they've figured out a Magic Formula to take wickets on roads, India would be on a 100 match winning streak at home.

Wasim and Waqar did. Such legends.

 

[Bun]

And this is the same GingerFurball who was arguing in one of the other threads that Jacques Kallis deserves more credit than say, a Ricky Ponting because he bats in the most difficult conditions for batsmen. An absolutely ridiculous double standard. (Funny - I was called for 'trolling' for bringing up the rankings. Now if this isn't trolling then I dunno what is).

Just because Zaheer Khan has grown up in India, it doesn't make it any easier to bowl there - flat pitches, the heat etc.

Did he? Massive lol if true.

 

[Furball]

And this is the same GingerFurball who was arguing in one of the other threads that Jacques Kallis deserves more credit than say, a Ricky Ponting because he bats in the most difficult conditions for batsmen. An absolutely ridiculous double standard. (Funny - I was called for 'trolling' for bringing up the rankings. Now if this isn't trolling then I dunno what is).

Just because Zaheer Khan has grown up in India, it doesn't make it any easier to bowl there - flat pitches, the heat etc.

No I didn't, I said Kallis' home record stands out more than Ponting's does. If you're going to claim I'm using double standards, try and at least understand the argument I've made first.

 

[GIMH]

SS, you are acting like an idiot. Disagreeing is fine but you're arguing things neither of us have said. Cbf with that, so I'm out.

 

[Blaze 18]

No I didn't, I said Kallis' home record stands out more than Ponting's does. If you're going to claim I'm using double standards, try and at least understand the argument I've made first.

So ? How does it matter if it stands out more than Ponting's ? If the Australian batsmen in Ponting's team have made better use of their conditions than the South Africans have made use of theirs then that isn't Ponting's fault. Dale Steyn is comfortably the best fast bowler in the world today; that doesn't automatically mean he is better than Malcom Marshall just because Marshall didn't stand out among his peers.

That argument has absolutely zero relevance anyway. Try reading what Imran Khan and the likes have to say about bowling in the sub-continent. It is a nightmare for fast bowlers, an absolute nightmare. Just because the bowler themselves do well there, it doesn't automatically make it easier to bowl well on them. Bowling on ultra flat pitches in 40 degrees celsius is a lot harder than bowling on lively pitches, in chilly, breezy conditions.

 

[Blaze 18]

Did he? Massive lol if true.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/48908-official-india-south-africa-129.html

Go through that discussion.

 

[GIMH]

Cook is a better opener than Sehwag, plays in more difficult conditions

 

[Prince EWS]

Cook is a better opener than Sehwag, plays in more difficult conditions

Kallis is better than everyone ever.

 

[Blaze 18]

Might well turn out to be, to be honest. I don't rate Sehwag all that highly.

 

[Prince EWS]

Kallis is better than everyone ever.

Might well turn out to be, to be honest

 

[Blaze 18]

Should have quoted the post.

 

[silentstriker]

Cook is a better opener than Sehwag, plays in more difficult conditions

Cook is amazing - I've said this since he debuted - I'm a huge fan. People here can attest - I've even said I like him more than Pietersen.



If Cook's average was as high as Sehwag and his S/R as well, he'd certainly be better (Zaheer's average and S/R are the same or slightly better than Anderson this year).

 

[Prince EWS]

Should have quoted the post.

Don't try to hide it; we all know you secretly think Kallis is the best ever.

 

[Blaze 18]

Don't try to hide it; we all know you secretly think Kallis is the best ever.

Come on Prince EWS, you know it isn't Kallis that I have a sweaty man crush on