England can beat India "every day of week": Gough

[Jarquis]

I predict a 3-1 or a 2-1 to India if Zaheer is playing.

In England?!

 

[Teja.]

In England?!

Yep, I'm blatantly biased, don't rate Anderson as much as the general population of CW seems to rate him and think green pitches are gonna be kinder to India than the pitches we prepared at home for the NZ series. Green pitches make Sree a test-class bowler and Zaheer is in the form of his life having 53 wickets @ 22 in his last 10 games. He was destructive against England in England when he was a much less evolved bowler than he is now. So, yeah.

 

[Bun]

India have played 6 series against top 5 sides but 5 were at home which is a rather big help.

Yes, but England's only series win in the said period against a top 5 team has also come at home isn't it?

In fact, apart from the away win in Bangladesh, they haven't won anywhere away.

 

[Jarquis]

Yep, I'm blatantly biased, don't rate Anderson as much as the general population of CW seems to rate him and think green pitches are gonna be kinder to India than the pitches we prepared at home for the NZ series. Green pitches make Sree a test-class bowler and Zaheer is in the form of his life having 53 wickets @ 22 in his last 10 games. He was destructive against England in England when he was a much less evolved bowler than he is now. So, yeah.

Fair enough. The admission of bias and blatant overrating/underrating of Zaheer/Anderson respectively pretty much explains it

 

[Teja.]

Oh, Before anyone jumps in and says Zaheer has 15 wickets against B'desh in the same time period. His record excluding BZ is :-

38 wickets in 8 games @ 23.21

He averages 21.8 against Oz, 23.8 against NZ, 23.9 against SA, 23.6 against SL in those matches along with 19 against B'desh. There are no wild inconsistencies in performances.

 

[Jarquis]

No, he's gun. But so's Jimmeh.

 

[Teja.]

No, he's gun. But so's Jimmeh.

Jimmeh's world-class but worse, IMHO. He won't convince me unless he has a really top-notch tour against a test-class batting line-up. Morkel, Zaheer and Steyn are better atm.

Now, Since I've said this, I really hope he won't take 24 @ 20 against India.

 

[Teja.]

No, he's gun. But so's Jimmeh.

Was not directed at you btw.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well how's it different from players getting injured, being dropped or falling woefully out of form or improving.
They're all the same in the fact that they change the current makeup/dynamic of the side. Thus influencing how the team is rated right now.
What players have already achieved can't be disputed or changed which is why the rankings will never be an entirely true reflection of the current state of play.

Yes, exactly. Just because a team represents the same country and shares a few players with another team doesn't mean it has to necessarily be lumped in together. A team is only as good as its players, its balance and its support staff. If you change those things, the team changes significantly to a point where results achieved by other teams by the same name no longer have any value beyond official rankings.

I made a prediction that, given England have eliminated all their weak players and I value that highly in top-level team sport, it'd put them in good stead to outperform every other team in the near future. If people disagree with me (like SS did) that's great; I'm here to debate it.. but quoting past results and current rankings to me completely misses the point. I'm not saying England have proven anything or that they've outplayed every other team already.. I'm making a prediction on it based on the changes they've made to their team. If you think they actually do have weaknesses, or that I over-rate the importance of minimising them, argue that. That they haven't been as good as India or South Africa over the last three years isn't something I'm denying.

It'd be a bit like seeing Gautam Gambhir come out in a Test series, take the new ball and show the world he can suddenly bowl immaculately accurate outswingers and inswingers at 145km/hr. Now overall he'd still have proven very little as a bowler even if he had a really good series, but I'm sure people would come out and predict bigger and better things for him, irrespective of his ICC rating. In reality players can't improve to such ridiculous extremes overnight, but teams can because they can completely change what they are with new personnel (both on and off the field) and combined improvements of existing personnel. That's how I feel about this England team, to an extent. It's not because they've retained the Ashes but because their perceived weak links have really, really dominated. Cook and Trott have averaged about 100 each and they replaced Steven Finn with a bowler I've long thought was ****ing awesome. They've proven little overall but I think the team they have now, irrespective of what they've actually achieved so far in the 20 seconds they've existed in this form, will become the best in the world. People may think I'm over-reacting to the current series but it's been a lot more about the change in personnel and the improvements in a couple of key players that has led me to this conclusion than the fact England is up 2-1. That they're winning is immaterial; if they'd been up 4-0 and Cook/Trott had been exposed and they hadn't picked Tremlett I wouldn't be predicting what I am. I just think it augers well for the future.

 

[Furball]

Jimmeh's world-class but worse, IMHO. He won't convince me unless he has a really top-notch tour against a test-class batting line-up. Morkel, Zaheer and Steyn are better atm.

Now, Since I've said this, I really hope he won't take 24 @ 20 against India.

It's alright, if he does then people will write him off based on some other nonsense criteria.

Steyn has a poor series against Pakistan, it's ok, the pitches were flat. Jimmy puts in some world class performances on flat Australian decks, the Aussie batting line up isn't Test class. Jimmy slaughters Pakistan at home, it was the conditions being helpful/Pakistan aren't Test class.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yep, I'm blatantly biased, don't rate Anderson as much as the general population of CW seems to rate him and think green pitches are gonna be kinder to India than the pitches we prepared at home for the NZ series. Green pitches make Sree a test-class bowler and Zaheer is in the form of his life having 53 wickets @ 22 in his last 10 games. He was destructive against England in England when he was a much less evolved bowler than he is now. So, yeah.

Anderson's much more useful to have in your setup than Zaheer on the basis that they're pretty equal when they're out there but Anderson's out there much, much more often these days.

 

[Teja.]

It's alright, if he does then people will write him off based on some other nonsense criteria.

Steyn has a poor series against Pakistan, it's ok, the pitches were flat. Jimmy puts in some world class performances on flat Australian decks, the Aussie batting line up isn't Test class. Jimmy slaughters Pakistan at home, it was the conditions being helpful/Pakistan aren't Test class.

Nah, Australia is very much test-class. Anderson just wasn't thaat good. 29 is by no means an outstanding bowling average. The Pak batting line-up in the England series was certainly not test class, in my personal opinion.

Basically in 2010, Anderson averaged 34 and 29 against SA and Oz, 25 and 14 against B'desh and Pak

Zaheer averaged 22 against Oz, 23 against SA, 24 against NZ and 19 against B'desh.

James Anderson is a world-class bowler, just not as good as Zaheer, Morkel and Steyn, IMHO.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Zaheer went through a similar stage, when he was in Australia and even just before that, where he was bowling brilliantly but not taking wickets by the hatful that it looked like he should. He's doing that now. Reckon it'll come for Anderson too, TBH.

 

[Prince EWS]

There's no way in the world I'd take Morkel over Anderson.

 

[smash84]

Nah, Australia is very much test-class. Anderson just wasn't thaat good. 29 is by no means an outstanding bowling average. The Pak batting line-up in the England series was certainly not test class, in my personal opinion.

Basically in 2010, Anderson averaged 34 and 29 against SA and Oz, 25 and 14 against B'desh and Pak

Zaheer averaged 22 against Oz, 23 against SA, 24 against NZ and 19 against B'desh.

James Anderson is a world-class bowler, just not as good as Zaheer, Morkel and Steyn, IMHO.

Agree with everything there except Morkel's inclusion in the list. Zaheer has been awesome in his last 10 or so tests except for his terrible fitness levels.

Come to think of it Jimmy Anderson might be ranked higher than Zaheer for many since Zaheer seems to be injured more than half the time these days. When fully fit I think I would pick Zaheer over Anderson though.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Agree with everything there except Morkel's inclusion in the list. Zaheer has been awesome in his last 10 or so tests except for his terrible fitness levels.

Come to think of it Jimmy Anderson might be ranked higher than Zaheer for many since Zaheer seems to be injured more than half the time these days. When fully fit I think I would pick Zaheer over Anderson though.

No doubt Zaheer is a quality bowler but no point being a good bowler if you miss games every series. You do wonder with a World Cup coming up how fit he will be after it. Wouldn't be surprised if he misses at least one test in England (i hope he doesn't) and on that basis Anderson has to be the wiser choice on fitness grounds.

 

[silentstriker]

I would drop the entire Test team from the WC tbh.

 

[Uppercut]

Fail to see how de Villiers walks into the England side tbh. He's behind Trott and Pietersen for me, not too much difference between him and Bell.

But, yeah, agree with all other points here.

Oh God. I hope you were taking the piss but I fear that isn't the case.

 

[GIMH]

Ridiculous

Edit - @ SS

 

[Prince EWS]

Oh God. I hope you were taking the piss but I fear that isn't the case.

I knew you'd reply to that. Sweaty man love strikes again.