England (and Wales) gloom, doom and recriminations thread

[Pothas]

Would England be able to have flat tracks in the CC, while keeping the bowling conditions at test level that make test cricket there so distinctive and exciting? In practice I think that might be difficult.

Guess a lot basically depends on what ball they use. Still playing in the actual summer would help.

 

[Pothas]

I think both points are true. Clearly playing most of our FC cricket in the spring and autumn does nothing whatsoever to develop test match players. But the diluted quality of most of the county sides is undeniable.

But it was also the case back when England had plenty of Test quality batsmen. Am not sure that essentially reducing the number of professional cricketers would really help.

 

[wpdavid]

But it was also the case back when England had plenty of Test quality batsmen. Am not sure that essentially reducing the number of professional cricketers would really help.

I struggle to see how improving the standard of cricket at which our professionals play wouldn't help. But yes, it wasn't so long ago that our professional structure did produce more test batsmen. I've long argued that the change happened after the group stage of the T20 competition became home and away instead of just home or away. Doubling the number of T20 group matches and pushing more of the county games to the fringes of the season.

 

[Furball]

But it was also the case back when England had plenty of Test quality batsmen. Am not sure that essentially reducing the number of professional cricketers would really help.

I've always thought there should be a franchise system on top of the county system.

 

[GIMH]

I think Pothas is write about the timing. Medium pacers are going to average 20 when they play half their games in April and September aren't they.

 

[harsh.ag]

Burns
Buttler
Stokes
Root
Pope
Bairstow
Ali
+ 4 pacers

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Since the experts decided that sport is a science and playing as little as possible is the way to go the England players don't play much County Cricket, high quality overseas players don't play much County Cricket, the standards are poor almost by default.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I have a bit of solidarity with Curran as a former left-arm medium pacer. I think he's got it in him to be something very good in Tests, just gotta get the ball swinging a bit later than it does, at the moment.

Sadly I've lost hope that SCurran will ever become a force in Tests. He's gone down the IPL route and he's really good at that. I think he should have a greater emphasis in England's T20 side where we should build around him. But he's not good enough with bat or ball for Tests just now and I don't see that changing any time soon.

 

[wpdavid]

Sadly I've lost hope that SCurran will ever become a force in Tests. He's gone down the IPL route and he's really good at that. I think he should have a greater emphasis in England's T20 side where we should build around him. But he's not good enough with bat or ball for Tests just now and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Yeah, it looks like his red-ball game has deteriorated over the last three years. Hardly surprising given how little FC cricket he has played, whereas he first came into the test side off the back of a batch of CC games. But, as you say, it's hard to see how that will change now.

 

[Furball]

I think Pothas is write about the timing. Medium pacers are going to average 20 when they play half their games in April and September aren't they.

Someone made a point on Sky that they should really be playing in October rather than April due to ground conditions as the ground will be warmer in October than it will in April. I thought it was an interesting point - light would obviously start to become a factor in October, but is that such a concern when you've got D/N cricket in all formats.

I think the timing of the Hundred as the big limited over domestic competition being played during school holidays makes perfect sense - the question is how you structure the season around the Hundred.

 

[Uppercut]

They could also play fewer internationals so they don’t constantly lose their best players to injuries and burnout.

 

[Noumenon]

Primacy of FC cricket has an obvious and logical appeal to shore up the general health of test team. In the messy real world though, the evidence is tenuous.

Indian team is made up of IPL superstars many of whom haven't played a FC game (excluding tests/warm-ups) in years. Rohit last played a Ranji match in 2015 apparently. It has been longer for Virat.

The two guys who do get to feature in domestic FC relatively often, Pujara and Rahane, haven't shown the benefits over LOIs merchants like Rohit and Rahul.

 

[Pothas]

Someone made a point on Sky that they should really be playing in October rather than April due to ground conditions as the ground will be warmer in October than it will in April. I thought it was an interesting point - light would obviously start to become a factor in October, but is that such a concern when you've got D/N cricket in all formats.

I think the timing of the Hundred as the big limited over domestic competition being played during school holidays makes perfect sense - the question is how you structure the season around the Hundred.

Easiest thing is just get rid of the blast. Could then play plenty of 4 day cricket in the summer months and still have the Hundred in August. I totally understand why the counties were desperate to keep the blast but having both is just a mess.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

You would have a hard time convincing committee members and paying members that their primary role is producing players for England. They’re all stand alone businesses.

 

[wpdavid]

You would have a hard time convincing committee members and paying members that their primary role is producing players for England. They’re all stand alone businesses.

How many of them would survive without their handouts from the ECB?

 

[honestbharani]

Primacy of FC cricket has an obvious and logical appeal to shore up the general health of test team. In the messy real world though, the evidence is tenuous.

Indian team is made up of IPL superstars many of whom haven't played a FC game (excluding tests/warm-ups) in years. Rohit last played a Ranji match in 2015 apparently. It has been longer for Virat.

The two guys who do get to feature in domestic FC relatively often, Pujara and Rahane, haven't shown the benefits over LOIs merchants like Rohit and Rahul.

The point is not about players playing the formats once they made it to the test level. Its the formative years which is a struggle for English and Aussie players now, compared to India's players, at least pre-covid, when they could get a full season of Ranji in before the LO stuff started.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

How many of them would survive without their handouts from the ECB?

They might have to promote young English talent instead of recruiting ready made Kolpaks on large salaries.

 

[wpdavid]

They might have to promote young English talent instead of recruiting ready made Kolpaks on large salaries.

They may have to do that anyway post-Brexit. But I still wonder how many of the counties would survive without the handouts from the ECB.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

They may have to do that anyway post-Brexit. But I still wonder how many of the counties would survive without the handouts from the ECB.

That isn’t really anything to do with the argument over what they see as their primary role. They want success for themselves.

 

[wpdavid]

That isn’t really anything to do with the argument over what they see as their primary role. They want success for themselves.

Actually it is relevant to whether they should be able to dictate how the game's structured in England and Wales.