Eng vs. SA head to head?

[twctopcat]

but in the last 6 months hes only played 1 test, and looking at 1 test is wholly unfair to any player.

But i was just trying to point out that after 6 months he is not necessarily in the same form due to such a long break. Therefore his last test score could well be irrelevant, we just don't know.

 

[tooextracool]

But i was just trying to point out that after 6 months he is not necessarily in the same form due to such a long break. Therefore his last test score could well be irrelevant, we just don't know.

it cannot be stated that he isnt in the same form no since it is 6 months later, he might or he might not. but his form this year has been far better than strauss'. strauss himself hasnt played test cricket for 4.5 months.

 

[twctopcat]

Has it been that long?? August seems like yesterday...

 

[Scaly piscine]

The number of draws Kallis played in, the more batter friendly conditions he had, him not having to bat with the tailenders as much and the slower strike rate are all things you can't put a figure on. Also they both played WI a load of times so the figures are kinda skewed to start with. Will be interesting to see if Kallis keeps up his fairly average batting record against England (Kallis is a bit of a crap team/flat track bully if you look at his Test stats which is why I don't rate him as high as other people).

 

[tooextracool]

The number of draws Kallis played in, the more batter friendly conditions he had, him not having to bat with the tailenders as much and the slower strike rate are all things you can't put a figure on. Also they both played WI a load of times so the figures are kinda skewed to start with. Will be interesting to see if Kallis keeps up his fairly average batting record against England (Kallis is a bit of a crap team/flat track bully if you look at his Test stats which is why I don't rate him as high as other people).

as opposed to flintoff whos played 8 tests against the WI this year

 

[Scaly piscine]

as opposed to flintoff whos played 8 tests against the WI this year

As covered by:

Also they both played WI a load of times

 

[tooextracool]

As covered by:

and kallis averaged more against them than flintoff did. incidentally hes also averaged 80 and 42 in india and SL respectively, neither of which are poor bowling attacks or have too many batter friendly wickets. remind me again how much flintoff averaged on his tours there?
look at it whatever way you want, flintoff has yet to prove his brilliance away from home, he had an extremely poor series in the WI except for that 1 test where as ricahrd will tell you he was dropped several times. he had a great summer at home just like he did last year. but hes yet to convince people that he can score away from home.

 

[Beleg]

He hasn't even played test-cricket in Pakistan yet...

 

[Scaly piscine]

Yea I forgot how bowler friendly that first Test in India was, the Tests with a result involving India & SL weren't exactly low scoring either. Anyways he still averages 32.61 v Aus, 37.47 v Eng, 38.00 v Pak, 33.63 v SL - ie the teams with decent bowling with a career average bloated by drawn games and Bangladesh & Zimbabwe beatings. We'll see how Kallis' batting holds up when the going gets tough against England.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yea I forgot how bowler friendly that first Test in India was, the Tests with a result involving India & SL weren't exactly low scoring either. Anyways he still averages 32.61 v Aus, 37.47 v Eng, 38.00 v Pak, 33.63 v SL - ie the teams with decent bowling with a career average bloated by drawn games and Bangladesh & Zimbabwe beatings. We'll see how Kallis' batting holds up when the going gets tough against England.

Comprehensive stats to come...

 

[Scaly piscine]

Comprehensive stats to come...

Just to tide over those who're after their stats fix... if you take out games against Bangladesh & Zimbabwe Kallis' batting average drops by 6 and he also averages nearly 70 in drawn games

 

[garage flower]

I'd noticed that Kallis had particularly astronomical stats against the minnows, though I haven't had the time or inclination to check whether it's disproportionate to other batsmen in the 50+ club. Lara, off the top of my head, hasn't played Bangladesh and - from memory - also missed the last 2 series against Zim, so I don't think he's had any significant boost.

Having said that, Kallis did look absolutely immense - the proverbial immovable object - against the Windies last year. Granted, it was a poor attack (undermined further by atrocious fielding) but he was just a remorseless run-making machine (I think I might have paraphrased The Simpsons there!).

Anyway, it will be interesting to see whether he can dominate - or at least prosper against - Harmison and Flintoff and prove that he deserves to be up there with Lara, Ponting, Sachin, Dravid, Hayden etc, as the stats suggest.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Just to tide over those who're after their stats fix... if you take out games against Bangladesh & Zimbabwe Kallis' batting average drops by 6 and he also averages nearly 70 in drawn games

Bradman's 2 highest scores came in drawn games. He averages 111.90 in them.

Kallis' average in draws is exactly 69.53 and he's participated in 23 of them. His centuries in drawn matches...

101 (279) v Aus as SA hung on at 273/7 chasing 381 for victory.
150* (312) v a disappointing NZ attack on a flat wicket.
132 (266) v Eng as SA took control on a decent batting wicket, but definitely with something for the bowlers, as England manage to equal South Africa's first innings total in their two innings combined, hanging on with one wicket left at the end.
189* (443) v pre-troubled Zim in a rain affected match.
130* (191) v WI in a match that was only drawn due the heroics of Dwayne Smith.

Read into it what you will.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Anyway, it will be interesting to see whether he can dominate - or at least prosper against - Harmison and Flintoff and prove that he deserves to be up there with Lara, Ponting, Sachin, Dravid, Hayden etc, as the stats suggest.

On could argue whether Lara, Ponting, Sachin, Dravid, Hayden are up there together too. IMO there's a bit of room between certain players on that list.

 

[Scaly piscine]

130* (191) v WI in a match that was only drawn due the heroics of Dwayne Smith.

Hmm... Dwayne Smith survives 105 balls as WI comfortably bat out 100 overs for a draw with 5 wickets left. Even Jacobs lasted 59 balls for his 9 not out.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Hmm... Dwayne Smith survives 105 balls as WI comfortably bat out 100 overs for a draw with 5 wickets left. Even Jacobs lasted 59 balls for his 9 not out.

Had Dwayne Smith been out in 1 or 2 balls, as I thought he would, Jacobs would have had to hang around longer. Then there was the matter of that brilliant West Indian tail. I thought it was pretty much common sense that.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Had Dwayne Smith been out in 1 or 2 balls, as I thought he would, Jacobs would have had to hang around longer. Then there was the matter of that brilliant West Indian tail. I thought it was pretty much common sense that.

A tail that wagged a bit in the first innings, Drakes and Mohammed are pretty solid with the bat and wouldn't get many better wickets to hang around on.

 

[garage flower]

On could argue whether Lara, Ponting, Sachin, Dravid, Hayden are up there together too. IMO there's a bit of room between certain players on that list.

Well, yes, for a start there's Lara then....










....the rest, but should Kallis be jostling for position amongst these or is he on a par with the likes of Martyn, Laxman, Vaughan, Gibbs, Youhana etc?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well, yes, for a start there's Lara then....










....the rest, but should Kallis be jostling for position amongst these or is he on a par with the likes of Martyn, Laxman, Vaughan, Gibbs, Youhana etc?

I wouldn't necessarily put Lara above Tendulkar. I think they're on par. Regarding Youhana and Gibbs, I'm fans of both, but I rate Kallis higher. He's probably on par with Vaughan and Martyn though, as I rate Martyn very highly. Not too sure about Laxman. Very good batsman, but I'd probably put Kallis ahead.

 

[garage flower]

Drakes and Mohammed are pretty solid with the bat

I'm going to reserve judgement on Kallis until his confrontation with Harmison and Flintoff, who I think are just about the most menacing pair of quick bowlers around at the moment, but I would just take issue with the description of "The Prophet" as "solid".

Yes, he's flailed away pretty effectively in his fledgling career, but he's looked anything but solid (unsolid perhaps?) and I wouldn't want him batting for my life let alone, err, a test match