Duncan Fletcher Blasts Australia

[Sanz]

No doubt he has done really well in his last two tests, but the fact remains that he got 15 tests to prove himself and Martyn got 3.... Ends don't always justify the means.

Martyn has got his chance in the past and it lasted about 2 years or 17 tests.

 

[marc71178]

He was but Id have more respect for Fletcher if he didnt come out with the "toilet break" excuse. That is simply nonsense.

Of course, perish the thought that it might be the truth?

I'm waiting for someone to tell us how exactly the player has time to get off and back on the pitch in 8 minutes without having anything more than about 2 minutes to go to the loo.

 

[marc71178]

Fletcher seems to be taking this overboar, whats wrong with him??

You what?

He wrote a book with it in - the media read it and make a big thing out of little parts (therefore it's not Fletcher who's making a big thing of it)

Then Ponting has reacted to it (still not Fletcher's fault)

 

[marc71178]

Everyone is cashing on this ashes success, first it was Flintoff who suddenly discovered that he was shot in New Delhi 4 years ago, then came Mr. Captain Vaughan who suddenly remembered that he was called 'Queer' by Graeme smith some one year ago. And now comes the Coach himself who suddenly remembers that 2 months ago Ponting hurled abuses at him after he was run-out.

No, it's people releasing books (which they would've had planned for a while obviously) - that doesn't mean they've "suddenly" remembered these things.

 

[Linda]

Martyn has got his chance in the past and it lasted about 2 years or 17 tests.

He wasnt out of form for 2 years, he still averaged 40 despite not scoring any centuries.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Ok, so why do you think they ask McGrath and Hayden about these things and not Lee and Martyn or Katich and the like?

Because a) they're better known, and b) they're more likely to comment.

 

[howardj]

The Australian players should learn to, proverbially speaking, let things go through to the keeper a bit more. You don't have to make a comment on everything, and react to everything, and give Fletcher the satisfaction of a response - even if you are asked a question about it. I think Fletcher knew he'd get a rise out of Ponting when he stood up and gave him a 'cheesy grin' after the run out incident. If it was Steve Waugh, then Fletcher wouldn't have bothered, as he wouldn't have got a reaction.

 

[Sanz]

No, it's people releasing books (which they would've had planned for a while obviously) - that doesn't mean they've "suddenly" remembered these things.

And obviously it has all been done without Fletcher's knowledge and permission. And obviously Fletcher/Vaughan/Flintoff aren't going to make any money out of the book sales.

 

[Sanz]

He wasnt out of form for 2 years, he still averaged 40 despite not scoring any centuries.

That's incorrect, Martyn didn't avg. 40 when he was out of form.

Martyn's slump was between Mar 2002 & Jan 2004, he played 16 tests during that period, he avgeraged 33 with 6 50s and 0 100s. 4 times Martyn was dismissed on 0.

Hayden's slump was between between Oct 2004 & Aug 2005, he also played 16 tests during that period and averaged 30 with 5 50s and 0 100s. Only one was Hayden out for a duck.

Hayden's slump lasted only 10 months, Martyn's lasted 22 months. Hayden had to play 16 tests within such a period and he hardly got any time away from the game to work on his form.

 

[social]

Of course, perish the thought that it might be the truth?

I'm waiting for someone to tell us how exactly the player has time to get off and back on the pitch in 8 minutes without having anything more than about 2 minutes to go to the loo.

Ive played literally hundreds of days of cricket where substitue fieldmen were available and would be pushing to recall more than, say, a dozen occasions where a player went off for a genuine "toilet" break. In fact, players are generally berated for even making such a request of the captain as there are ample opportunities outside of playing times to relieve oneself.

How could this be the case?

Well, normal people take the opportunity at genuine breaks in play and therefore only have to wait another hour or so before their next opportunity.

However, Duncan Fletcher is peddling the theory that players, once they don an English cap, lose total control of their bodily functions in an attempt to mask his team's flouting of the substitution laws and youre gullible enough to swallow it.

How I wish that you were an Eskimo and I had snow to sell. I'd really make a killing.

 

[social]

'He queried decisions on the pitch' - heh, he and usually someone else (obviously Ponting being fairly small wouldn't be intimidating enough by himself) immediately went over to the umpire and started being aggressive towards them. That brings the game into disrepute because he's showing up the umpires, whether the umpire got the decision right or not is irrelevant.

And you dont think countless replays of poor decisions does the same thing.

I dont agree with Ponting taking action on the pitch but:

a. the umpires were horrible in the Ashes series and generally inconsistent with previous interpretations of the laws; and

b. it was hardly the most heinous crime perpetrated on the field.

 

[social]

Because a) they're better known, and b) they're more likely to comment.

Exactly.

How anyone can attempt to blame Aus players for the ramblings of a relative non-entity is beyond me.

Imagine if Hayden or Ponting had declined to comment.

The media would've peddled a line along the lines of "Bad blood continues as Aussies shun our Fletch."

You seriously cannot win with the media.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

And you dont think countless replays of poor decisions does the same thing.

I dont agree with Ponting taking action on the pitch but:

a. the umpires were horrible in the Ashes series and generally inconsistent with previous interpretations of the laws; and

b. it was hardly the most heinous crime perpetrated on the field.

Can't disagree the umpires were pretty ordinary.

Maybe not the most heinous, but certainly the crimes I mostly do not wish to see; calling the umpire's authority on the pitch, blatantly. Whilst a few of the Warne LBW's were "out" another couple weren't and were still vociferously challenged, and whilst umpires have and will always make errors, the fellow in the hat behind the stumps will always have a better view than the bowler or the skipper at short silly mid-off.

 

[Scaly piscine]

And you dont think countless replays of poor decisions does the same thing.

I dont agree with Ponting taking action on the pitch but:

a. the umpires were horrible in the Ashes series and generally inconsistent with previous interpretations of the laws; and

b. it was hardly the most heinous crime perpetrated on the field.

There's no comparison between a replay showing what actually happened and a couple of players confronting the umpire and harassing him because he didn't give a decision your way. Can you imagine after yet another cheap Bell dismissal Vaughan and a mate running onto the field and having a go at Bell as he's walking back to the pavilion?

As for the umpiring in the Ashes series it wasn't that bad overall, I've seen far worse - it was just the fact that Ponting had a big whine on a few of them and the series was close that made it look far worse than it actually was.

 

[social]

Can't disagree the umpires were pretty ordinary.

Maybe not the most heinous, but certainly the crimes I mostly do not wish to see; calling the umpire's authority on the pitch, blatantly. Whilst a few of the Warne LBW's were "out" another couple weren't and were still vociferously challenged, and whilst umpires have and will always make errors, the fellow in the hat behind the stumps will always have a better view than the bowler or the skipper at short silly mid-off.

Completely agree.

Anyone that has ever played the game should recognise that the umpire is the final adjudicator.

Ponting's actions were immature and borne out of frustration (and one of the reasons 've called for his replacing).

However, they hardly brought the game into disrepute. If anything, they added a bit of colour.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Exactly.

How anyone can attempt to blame Aus players for the ramblings of a relative non-entity is beyond me.

Imagine if Hayden or Ponting had declined to comment.

The media would've peddled a line along the lines of "Bad blood continues as Aussies shun our Fletch."

You seriously cannot win with the media.

Another reason they didn't ask Lee may have been because he'd have said summat like "ahh look mate the best team wan and hey we can talk about this-and-that bat we have to work harda? n' hey you know we can all blame decisions bat it's six o' one half dazan the other during a series??.." etc.

Not really tabloid stuff is it.

 

[marc71178]

And obviously it has all been done without Fletcher's knowledge and permission. And obviously Fletcher/Vaughan/Flintoff aren't going to make any money out of the book sales.

Yes, they will, but once the book is released, the press can pick up on whatever they want - so will automatically pick the bits they think will make the most headlines.

 

[marc71178]

Ive played literally hundreds of days of cricket where substitue fieldmen were available and would be pushing to recall more than, say, a dozen occasions where a player went off for a genuine "toilet" break. In fact, players are generally berated for even making such a request of the captain as there are ample opportunities outside of playing times to relieve oneself.

How could this be the case?

Well, normal people take the opportunity at genuine breaks in play and therefore only have to wait another hour or so before their next opportunity.

However, Duncan Fletcher is peddling the theory that players, once they don an English cap, lose total control of their bodily functions in an attempt to mask his team's flouting of the substitution laws and youre gullible enough to swallow it.

How I wish that you were an Eskimo and I had snow to sell. I'd really make a killing.

So in other words you've got absolutely no evidence to say that Fletcher is wrong.

And I note that nobody has shown how these 8 minutes are enough time to have a full massage etc.

 

[parttimer]

There's no comparison between a replay showing what actually happened and a couple of players confronting the umpire and harassing him because he didn't give a decision your way. Can you imagine after yet another cheap Bell dismissal Vaughan and a mate running onto the field and having a go at Bell as he's walking back to the pavilion?

As for the umpiring in the Ashes series it wasn't that bad overall, I've seen far worse - it was just the fact that Ponting had a big whine on a few of them and the series was close that made it look far worse than it actually was.

Well considering your English and hence the beneficiary of said poor decisions, i guess u wouldn't be too unhappy with the umpiring

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Well considering your English and hence the beneficiary of said poor decisions, i guess u wouldn't be too unhappy with the umpiring

England would have won the Edgbaston Test by 50-odd runs rather than two if the correct decision had have been given at the time. Bad umpiring affected both teams.