Dravid - War Memorial Speech

[NasserFan207]

That part was fine. But India were made to participate in WW 1 esp. against their wishes. I am unaware of how it was for Australia but it is not a topic people are proud of and is best avoided.

I think you are missing the point mate, its not about the political nature of the war itself, its about the gritty reality of Indians and Australians dying side by side as comrades. Its about the individuals on the ground who lost their lives.

I don't think anyone, no matter what their nationality remembers WW1 as a good thing anyway. Doesn't mean we can't remember those who died with fondness.

 

[Burgey]

I think you are missing the point mate, its not about the political nature of the war itself, its about the gritty reality of Indians and Australians dying side by side as comrades. Its about the individuals on the ground who lost their lives.

I don't think anyone, no matter what their nationality remembers WW1 as a good thing anyway. Doesn't mean we can't remember those who died with fondness.

I got the impression it was about that too, but he probably should have popped a draft up on CW for approval before uttering a word, just to be safe.

 

[honestbharani]

I think you are missing the point mate, its not about the political nature of the war itself, its about the gritty reality of Indians and Australians dying side by side as comrades. Its about the individuals on the ground who lost their lives.

I don't think anyone, no matter what their nationality remembers WW1 as a good thing anyway. Doesn't mean we can't remember those who died with fondness.

Well, fair enough, but there were protests in India at that time about us being made to participate in the war with no reason, just because we were a colony... So I am generally icky when they bring it up anywhere.


It is not about the political side of it at all.. It is just that it is a very bad part of the history for India when our soldiers were killed for a war that was not ours... You really have to be here to understand how it is remembered.

 

[Himannv]

That part was fine. But India were made to participate in WW 1 esp. against their wishes. I am unaware of how it was for Australia but it is not a topic people are proud of and is best avoided.

It was just a speech man. I don't think his intention was to cause political riot to happen.

I got the impression it was about that too, but he probably should have popped a draft up on CW for approval before uttering a word, just to be safe.

This is obviously what he should have done. By not doing this, he has risked universal trolling, for which there is no escape.

 

[ganeshran]

Participating the war was a very unpopular decision at that time, and even today it is not seen in India as an heroic or a brave act, rather a necessary evil that had to be done in order to attain freedom.

Maybe the Australians saw the whole incident differently and hence Dravid made a reference to it in the speech

 

[BoyBrumby]

That part was fine. But India were made to participate in WW 1 esp. against their wishes. I am unaware of how it was for Australia but it is not a topic people are proud of and is best avoided.

That's a bit of an oversimplification. The original Indian expeditionary force that went to France was made entirely of professional soldiers. It may be an uncomfortable truth but many Indians fought willingly and bravely for the British Empire. In fact, per capita, the Sikh regiments have won more Victoria Crosses (Britain's highest award for bravery) than any other.

As the war wore on a "quota" system was introduced (conscription by another name) whereby Indian officials were heavily leant on by their colonial masters to produce a certain amount of "recruits" by any means, which probably included coercion.

Anyway, Rahul's point was that Australians and Indians have fought side by side as comrades and have a shared history above and beyond cricket rather than a comment on the geopolitical forces that created the situation in which this occured.

 

[Cruxdude]

The war like it or not was a common history and I do not see anything wrong with it being mentioned. Regardless those were a few lines in a wonderful speech and do not matter.

Loved also his effort to humanize Indian cricket and point out that it was not just money and power.

 

[Sanz]

Amazing Speech.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

It was just a speech man. I don't think his intention was to cause political riot to happen.

AWTA! I do believe that Dravid's intentions were honest even though that reference wouldn't have thrilled many Indian nationalists. As the one who initially pointed it out, let me step forward and suggest that it's fair that we let it go.

At no stage did HB or I accuse Dravid of deliberately trying to start an issue. It's most likely an honest oversight on the legendary batsman's part.

 

[honestbharani]

It was just a speech man. I don't think his intention was to cause political riot to happen.



This is obviously what he should have done. By not doing this, he has risked universal trolling, for which there is no escape.

Save the sarcasm for later when you have actually understood my point.


And Burgey is more than qualified to talk about trolling.. After all, to be the troll you have to troll the troll.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Maybe he shouldn't have visited the War Memorial at all given how Indian Nationalists feel about the War. In fact, he should probably take England of his future touring list too as there's a risk visiting there might remind Indian Nationalists of the colonial past.

Seriously guys, he's at a war memorial - it might be a little bit incongruous and maybe even rude to air brush the past away; even if it makes a few people more than a little uncomfortable. He's talking about facts, not giving his opinion on the rights and wrongs of the past. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[BoyBrumby]

It's a great speech in any event. I thought this paragraph particularly gets close to the nub of the gist of the modern day game:

I know it is utterly fanciful to expect professional cricketers to play the game like amateurs; but the trick I believe is taking the spirit of the amateur – of discovery, of learning, of pure joy, of playing by the rules – into our profession.

A recognition that he plays a professional sport, but that the old verities still have their place.

Should've won CW's fav cricketer, tbh.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

In fact, he should probably take England of his future touring list too as there's a risk visiting there might remind Indian Nationalists of the colonial past.

Way to miss a point. Even Chris Martin doesn't miss pitched up deliveries by that margin!

But I implore again that we put the issue to rest. If someone is (genuinely) interested in hearing the other perspective, let me (or maybe HB can also volunteer) know through a VM or something. Best to discuss non-cricketing issues outside the forums.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

What 'other perspective' - he has stated a fact about participation in the same conflict as the Australians. He has not voiced an opinion on whether involvement was right, wrong or whether he feels indifferent on the matter.

If that riles Nationalists up, then let them be riled. I'd understand your point if he was voicing an opinion, but you can't bury historical fact.

EDIT: And I can't see the harm of discussing such issues on the forum. There's threads about politics on this forum, so unless the moderators tell us otherwise, I can't see why we can't have this debate here?

 

[NasserFan207]

Well, fair enough, but there were protests in India at that time about us being made to participate in the war with no reason, just because we were a colony... So I am generally icky when they bring it up anywhere.


It is not about the political side of it at all.. It is just that it is a very bad part of the history for India when our soldiers were killed for a war that was not ours... You really have to be here to understand how it is remembered.

Mate, I'm Irish Catholic. I am well aware of soldiers being sent to die on the whims of the British

 

[Himannv]

Should've won CW's fav cricketer, tbh.

Never a truer word spoken.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

...

Not here, friend. Check your page!

 

[honestbharani]

That's a bit of an oversimplification. The original Indian expeditionary force that went to France was made entirely of professional soldiers. It may be an uncomfortable truth but many Indians fought willingly and bravely for the British Empire. In fact, per capita, the Sikh regiments have won more Victoria Crosses (Britain's highest award for bravery) than any other.

As the war wore on a "quota" system was introduced (conscription by another name) whereby Indian officials were heavily leant on by their colonial masters to produce a certain amount of "recruits" by any means, which probably included coercion.

Anyway, Rahul's point was that Australians and Indians have fought side by side as comrades and have a shared history above and beyond cricket rather than a comment on the geopolitical forces that created the situation in which this occured.

Well, I wont pretend to know exactly what went on. I am sure our regiments won awards for bravery but that is not really the point... I am yet to find a single source in whatever history I have studied that shows our participation in WW I as anything but forced.


My point here is he could have mentioned the whole thing without specifying WW I. Anyways we are talking in circles.. I have made my point. Good Evening, guys.

 

[honestbharani]

AWTA! I do believe that Dravid's intentions were honest even though that reference wouldn't have thrilled many Indian nationalists. As the one who initially pointed it out, let me step forward and suggest that it's fair that we let it go.

At no stage did HB or I accuse Dravid of deliberately trying to start an issue. It's most likely an honest oversight on the legendary batsman's part.

yeah.. AWTA.



Look, no one is trying to say it is a big fault or whatever. AFAIC, I m making a point on how that war is regarded back home in this context.

 

[Furball]

Mate, I'm Irish Catholic. I am well aware of soldiers being sent to die on the whims of the British

Your mob was killing them, that's why