DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen Countdown Thread

[ankitj]

Llyod, Inzamam, Root and Hayden should show up soon. Probably Sehwag too depending on what his SR and peak do for him. Will be very interesting to see how far up Nourse finishes. Superb record for someone not mentioned alongside top tier batsmen.

 

[stephen]

Llyod, Inzamam, Root and Hayden should show up soon. Probably Sehwag too depending on what his SR and peak do for him. Will be very interesting to see how far up Nourse finishes. Superb record for someone not mentioned alongside top tier batsmen.

Nourse fascinates me as a player. He was a pioneer for South African cricket and he was so vital to their chances when he played that whether they could draw or not was on his bat.

 

[Cabinet96]

Pollock perhaps with his shortened career.

Root perhaps for not really having a peak.

But both are a stretch and should make it.

Nah Root had a peak from 2014 to 2016/2017. Not sure what the best 50 innings quite is, but here's a 55 innings streak averaging 65 for instance Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[h_hurricane]

Llyod, Inzamam, Root and Hayden should show up soon. Probably Sehwag too depending on what his SR and peak do for him. Will be very interesting to see how far up Nourse finishes. Superb record for someone not mentioned alongside top tier batsmen.

I think this was Sehwag's 50 innings peak.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

Averaging 60 and striking at 96

His overall strike rate of 82 is insane. I am reasonably confident he will break into top 30.

 

[Logan]

A SR of 82 after playing 100+ Tests is unreal especially for an opener.

 

[ataraxia]

Sehwag will be a chance for top 20.

Lloyd next, then Root.

 

[h_hurricane]

Out of sheer curiosity, I have compared the career numbers of Sehwag with some of his contemporaries like (Kallis, Dravid, Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar). Here are my observations.

1) In Sehwag's generally recognized weak point (his non home record), he actually does better than Ponting based on home average/home runs per innings/strike rate as per ratio 4:2:1. Lara is ahead of him by a whisker whereas Kallis, Ponting and Tendulkar are not all that far ahead.
2) Sehwag's peak 50 innings is only barely surpassed by Ponting as per the above ratio. Others fall behind.
3) Here is the killer. Sehwag equals Lara in overall metric and leaves others behind.

I could still see the other four pull ahead of him due to the below reasons.

1)Overall career length
2) Era adjustments (others having played in 90s)

Additionally, here is another example which confirms my suspicion.

Walters is actually ahead of Gilchrist in the non home metric if you take just none home average and runs per innings. But look at the way Gilchrist pulls ahead of him a fair bit in the non home metric due to his unreal strike rate.

 

[Coronis]

Out of sheer curiosity, I have compared the career numbers of Sehwag with some of his contemporaries like (Kallis, Dravid, Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar). Here are my observations.

1) In Sehwag's generally recognized weak point (his non home record), he actually does better than Ponting based on home average/home runs per innings/strike rate as per ratio 4:2:1. Lara is ahead of him by a whisker whereas Kallis, Ponting and Tendulkar are not all that far ahead.
2) Sehwag's peak 50 innings is only barely surpassed by Ponting as per the above ratio. Others fall behind.
3) Here is the killer. Sehwag equals Lara in overall metric and leaves others behind.

I could still see the other four pull ahead of him due to the below reasons.

1)Overall career length
2) Era adjustments (others having played in 90s)

Additionally, here is another example which confirms my suspicion.

Walters is actually ahead of Gilchrist in the non home metric if you take just none home average and runs per innings. But look at the way Gilchrist pulls ahead of him a fair bit in the non home metric due to his unreal strike rate.

Ah don’t ruin me with maths and logic. I’d rather be surprised.

 

[Flem274*]

this decade has been good for quicks. steyn, rabada, philander, morkel, harris, johnson, cummins, starc, haze, boult, wagner, southee, anderson, broad, shami, ishant, bumrah and roach are all guys you feel good about hitting a ton against.

the 00s were so injury plagued. you had mcgrath and pollock, but then the next two best barely played (shoiab and bond). spin stocks were at the strongest ever, so i think we can say 00s batsmen had the toughest deal against it but pace wise there was a lot of chris martin - test standard but not world beating.

the 00s also saw the rise of sports science pace academies that i know in nz at least are not remembered fondly. potentially the infancy of the new sports science ideas lost the world a generation of quicks?

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Is it because the rise of banning chuckers, that this decade have seen a revival in pace bowling?

 

[Logan]

this decade has been good for quicks. steyn, rabada,
philander, morkel, harris, johnson, cummins, starc, haze, boult, wagner, southee, anderson, broad, shami, ishant, bumrah and roach are all guys you feel good about hitting a ton against.

Most of the names you have mentioned played in the second half of the decade.

The first half of the decade was miserable for the fast bowlers. Of course, Steyn was great. Philander was great at home but medicore in away condtions.

In the second half of the decade, you saw the fall of Steyn but there was a massive revival in fast bowling.

The year wide cumulative average has decreased from mid 50s in the first half of the decade to 45 in 2017 and 40.07 in 2018, second lowest in the last 89 years of the game.

The average number of runs scored in 2018 was 27, the lowest in the last 59 years of the game.

2018 was the first time that there were more 5WPI than centuries.

 

[Logan]

Post-McGrath’s retirement, Steyn was the only ATG fast bowler bowler till his injury in 2015.

Post-2015, there has been a revival of fast bowling.

Is there any particular reason there has been a revival in fast bowling post-2015?

 

[Slifer]

I don't know about other places but I think in the WI it's due to curators finally preparing pitches with a little spice in them. Of course vs teams like india and Australia with both superior batting and bowling results will backfire. But I much rather see exciting cricket like the last wisden series over the slow and dull pitches of a few years ago.

 

[Flem274*]

Most of the names you have mentioned played in the second half of the decade.

The first half of the decade was miserable for the fast bowlers. Of course, Steyn was great. Philander was great at home but medicore in away condtions.

In the second half of the decade, you saw the fall of Steyn but there was a massive revival in fast bowling.

The year wide cumulative average has decreased from mid 50s in the first half of the decade to 45 in 2017 and 40.07 in 2018, second lowest in the last 89 years of the game.

The average number of runs scored in 2018 was 27, the lowest in the last 59 years of the game.

2018 was the first time that there were more 5WPI than centuries.

most of the bowlers i named debuted before 2015. southee's entire peak was 2012-2014 and ryan harris' peak will be in there somewhere too.

 

[honestbharani]

The early 2010s were a LOT better for bowling than the entire noughties were. Just because Warne and Murali played most of the decade does not mean spin was all that great then either. And not to forget, the tracks were mostly extremely extremely flat. The flattest track decade of the modern era.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I have a feeling there's going to be an absolute shocker here - i.e. Sehwag > Dravid/Gavaskar or something.
(We all know he's better than Border).

 

[Logan]

Sehwag has a horrible away record.

Dravid was medicore against the top two teams, Aus and SA.

So wouldn’t be surprised if Sehwag ranks higher than Dravid.

Sehwag higher than Gavaskar? Unlikely.

 

[h_hurricane]

Gavaskar should end up higher.

Sehwag did not have a horrible away record by the way. Averaged 44 with R.P.I of 43 and an insane strike rate of 80. As per the rough estimate I did yesterday, he is higher than Ponting in this regard. Would be really suprised if Sehwag and Ponting are too far off each other in the away record metric as per DoG's criteria.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Sehwag's record against Australia isn't particularly great either and he was usually woeful against England. I think his overall average/rpi/strike rate is so high that it might propel him up a few spots higher though.

 

[h_hurricane]

I think he might be down on the quality opposition metric which is a bit different from the non-home metric.

Edit : having some second thoughts here.

Sehwag's 309 was made against Akhtar and Saqlain.

He made 319 against Steyn, Morkel, Ntini and Kallis

Scored 254 against Akhtar and Kaneria, a decent spinner.

Scored 293 and 201 against Murali.

Made 155 vs Mcgrath ,Warne and Gillespie. 195 against Lee and MacGill.

I don't think quality opposition looks into the pitches he played so this might be interesting.