Do SC Pacers Deserve More Credit For Home Performances?

[subshakerz]

Bro stop it, nobody said it's meaningless. But nobody is lowering anyone's average by 1-2 points because of a myriad of factors already mentioned. I already showed that foreign fast bowlers have had success in Asia as well.

Foreign fast bowlers don't have half their careers on such pitches and we already give them credit.

Lowering the average is a fair way to even the scales for SC pacers who are at a strategic disadvantage.

I distinctly recall you harping on how Steve Smith is overrated because he feasts on roads at home. So should we lower averages for Cummins, Haze etc for succeeding for half their career on those roads?

Cummins came back in the side in 2018, no? When pitches started improving at home.

 

[Sunil1z]

Shami, Broad, Wagner.

Who rates these bowlers? Did we have a poll where these bowlers defeated Kapil?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Who rates these bowlers? Did we have a poll where these bowlers defeated Kapil?

Stuart Broad vs Kapil Dev

Two guys with great longevity

www.cricketweb.net

 

[trundler]

Who rates these bowlers? Did we have a poll where these bowlers defeated Kapil?

Gut feeling. But sure let's have a poll

 

[Burgey]

He’d just adapt since that’s what great players do!

Yeah he probably would have. He almost certainly would have coped better with the pace and bounce here had he grown up locally. It makes sense that would be the case.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Cummins came back in the side in 2018, no? When pitches started improving at home.

Actually a good point tbh. This is about where Smith started to decline a bit too. Hmmmmm

 

[subshakerz]

Well that's because you lack basic comprehension skills. That's not my fault.

Yeah but did you at a point say SC pacers get extra credit in any way eve after all the factoring? Or did I miss it?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Actually a good point tbh. This is about where Smith started to decline a bit too. Hmmmmm

Why hasn’t Smith adapted over the last 3-4 years at home like great players are supposed to?

 

[subshakerz]

Stuart Broad vs Kapil Dev

Two guys with great longevity

www.cricketweb.net

This is a perfect example.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

This is a perfect example.

Again if Kapil was playing in Eng for majority of his matches like Broad, he would’ve been worse. You require skill in SENA to succeed as well. If Kapil was decent in India and great in Eng and same for Broad, I’d rate Kapil higher

 

[Burgey]

Yeah but did you at a point say SC pacers get extra credit in any way eve after all the factoring? Or did I miss it?

Yeah I did say that at the outset. I said it's balanced to some degree by them growing up and learning their craft in those conditions, but absolutely they should get credit for it.

I think SC pacers do get credit for it on here though, as they should. It's always in the discussion when it comes to those guys. It probably should be balanced a little bit by them growing up in those conditions and being used to them, otherwise you'd just expect them to turn up in non-SC conditions, roll their arms over and dominate. Which they didn't always do. Players being a product of their environments applies to bolwers as much as batsmen I suppose - Pakistan blokes developed into great reverse bowlers as there's nothing in the deck. They grow up in SA/ England they'd still be guns but probably at orthodox swing or seam movement instead.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah I did say that at the outset. I said it's balanced to some degree by them growing up and learning their craft in those conditions, but absolutely they should get credit for it.

Ok cool.

 

[Burgey]

On the other hand, Gavaskar is a ****

 

[Slifer]

Foreign fast bowlers don't have half their careers on such pitches and we already give them credit.

Lowering the average is a fair way to even the scales for SC pacers who are at a strategic disadvantage.


Cummins came back in the side in 2018, no? When pitches started improving at home.

Of the 52 tests Ambrose played at home in the WI, about half were played away from pace friendly Sabina and Kensington. He was outstanding away from those pace friendly wickets.

As for the Cummins comment, he isn't Australia's only fast bowler, nice try. Don't know why you think pitches started improving in 2018. Australia piled up runs at home after 2018 vs the likes of WI, NZ, Eng, RSA, SL etc, while their bowlers still took wickets.

 

[Sunil1z]

Stuart Broad vs Kapil Dev

Two guys with great longevity

www.cricketweb.net

Broad has 600 Test wkts . So Kapil’s longevity factor cancels out imo.
But if someone rates Shami and Wagner higher , then that is highly debatable.

 

[subshakerz]

Of the 52 tests Ambrose played at home in the WI, about half were played away from pace friendly Sabina and Kensington. He was outstanding away from those pace friendly wickets.

If your overall argument is that WI pitches = Pak pitches in the 90s, we are just going to have to disagree.

As for the Cummins comment, he isn't Australia's only fast bowler, nice try. Don't know why you think pitches started improving in 2018. Australia piled up runs at home after 2018 vs the likes of WI, NZ, Eng, RSA, SL etc, while their bowlers still took wickets.

Pitches have improved since the mid 2010s IMO.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You guys managed to turn out 12 pages of this **** in 4 hours?? I can't even join the discussion now properly..... Anyways, I think they should get some extra points and they generally do; but not to some great extent.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Pitches do seem to be a lot spicier in Aus since Cummins became captain

 

[subshakerz]

You guys managed to turn out 12 pages of this **** in 4 hours?? I can't even join the discussion now properly..... Anyways, I think they should get some extra points and they generally do; but not to some great extent.

How many average points do we cut for SC bowlers?

 

[Burgey]

Pitches do seem to be a lot spicier in Aus since Cummins became captain

Maybe he just makes them look that way