Disparity between Pakistani and Indian great pace bowlers.

[kyear2]

The real reason is simple: Imran Khan. Until the 70s, Pakistan and India were pretty similar as far as cricketing traditions go, classical batsmen, spinners and the odd medium quality pacer in the early days. Imran Khan resisted demands to be a medium pacer, remodelling his action to be a true quality quick in England and Australia, and then became the fast-bowling inspiration, starting a legacy of Wasim, Waqar, etc.

Imran Khan was the aberration, the exception to the rule, and changed the course of Pakistan cricket.

Seems to be a valid point.

 

[cnerd123]

800 billion...

The genetics thing is a valid argument imo, you've kinda admitted that it does make a difference in your post anyways by mentioning how the average Punjabi or Pathan kid is generally bigger than the rest. Unfortunately it's a very small percentage of the entire population of India.

*800 million.

The reason I don't buy the genetics argument is that the sheer size of the Indian population means that even this very small percentage should be significant in terms of absolute numbers, This argument may work for a smaller nation like Nepal or even Bangladesh, but not India. India's outliers still form a pretty large population on their own.

As for how did Imran have such a profound effect on the course of Pakistan and it's fast bowling culture as compared to Dev and India...that could be something worth analysing further.

 

[Daemon]

*800 million.

The reason I don't buy the genetics argument is that the sheer size of the Indian population means that even this very small percentage should be significant in terms of absolute numbers, This argument may work for a smaller nation like Nepal or even Bangladesh, but not India. India's outliers still form a pretty large population on their own.

I don't think it's the major factor, but I do think it's one of the reasons why we don't produce that many. Even Afghanistan have got a couple of pretty quick bowlers in their short history, and I think genetics may have something to do with it.

 

[duffer]

None of Imran, Wasim, Waqar got a match winnings 7-fer at Lord's. The disparity really is huge. Feel sorry for our neigbours sometimes

Heh.

edit: But seriously; no beef, no stamina.

 

[duffer]

I'm revealing my ignorance here, I know, but up until recent history Pakistan was part of India, right?

If you consider 1947 as recent history then yes.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't think it's the major factor, but I do think it's one of the reasons why we don't produce that many. Even Afghanistan have got a couple of pretty quick bowlers in their short history, and I think genetics may have something to do with it.

Yeah I can buy this. Imran must have banged hundreds of Pakistani women. The country's fast bowling gene pool would've shot up astronomically when he was in his 20s.

 

[harsh.ag]

Imran has produced many good bowlers for Pakistan

 

[cnerd123]

I don't think it's the major factor, but I do think it's one of the reasons why we don't produce that many. Even Afghanistan have got a couple of pretty quick bowlers in their short history, and I think genetics may have something to do with it.

It's a factor, I'll give you that. Out of the total talent pool, most of the aspiring young fast bowlers wouldn't have what it takes to crack 140ks consistently. Fair enough.

However, with a population as big as India, and with cricket being a major sport, the problem wouldn't be a lack of raw pace bowling talent. Even if only 1% of a 1000 young fast bowlers have that ability, that's still 10 fast bowlers. The problem instead is harnessing and developing that talent. For example; a lot of the best pace bowling talent seems to be located in the poorer 'cricketing backwaters' of India. If the BCCI could tap into that talent, we will harness more players with the physique and power to bowl fast and hit big too.

And here is Akash Chopra's article, for reference:

Blogs: Aakash Chopra on the extinction of fast bowlers in India | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[duffer]

It's a factor, I'll give you that. Out of the total talent pool, most of the aspiring young fast bowlers wouldn't have what it takes to crack 140ks consistently. Fair enough.

However, with a population as big as India, and with cricket being a major sport, the problem wouldn't be a lack of raw pace bowling talent. Even if only 1% of a 1000 young fast bowlers have that ability, that's still 10 fast bowlers. The problem instead is harnessing and developing that talent. For example; a lot of the best pace bowling talent seems to be located in the poorer 'cricketing backwaters' of India. If the BCCI could tap into that talent, we will harness more players with the physique and power to bowl fast and hit big too.

And here is Akash Chopra's article, for reference:

Blogs: Aakash Chopra on the extinction of fast bowlers in India | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

It's not a new school of thought though. People have been saying this for a good decade at the very least and there should be an expectation on the BCCI to use some of their millions in setting up academies/schools or what not. Seeing as these noises have been around for some time I'm hoping that such facilities/programs actually do exist and we'll see them bear fruit soon enough. Can never tell when dealing with India though. Living here it seems like there is no transparency/accountability in most walks of life.

 

[cnerd123]

It's not a new school of thought though. People have been saying this for a good decade at the very least and there should be an expectation on the BCCI to use some of their millions in setting up academies/schools or what not. Seeing as these noises have been around for some time I'm hoping that such facilities/programs actually do exist and we'll see them bear fruit soon enough. Can never tell when dealing with India though. Living here it seems like there is no transparency/accountability in most walks of life.

Haha, you'll eventually get used to it.

I lived in Dubai, and it's filled with Indians.I learnt that anything that is organised/run by the Indians of the community is defo going to involve petty politics, unnecessary bureaucracy, lack of enthusiasm to implement any change that could bring about an improvement, and people in charge who relish the little power they now possess. It's pathetic.

Perhaps this is genetic too.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I wouldn't consider genes a factor but geography could be. The northern areas of Pakistan are a harsh environment and growing up there is very different to the rest of Pakistan.

 

[smash84]

I wouldn't consider genes a factor but geography could be. The northern areas of Pakistan are a harsh environment and growing up there is very different to the rest of Pakistan.

Yet, which of Pakistan s great bowlers came from Northern areas?

 

[r3alist]

India has a poor record of developing and improving promising bowlers, very good prospects just become quite good, good prospects become mediocre, suggests they don't know what to do when it comes to fast bowling, so just imagine the ineptitude at lower levels in terms of scouting talent, above all this seems to be most consistently true.

Also, these days no one is producing quick bowlers, let alone india, not really an india specific issue these days.

 

[smash84]

Also, these days no one is producing quick bowlers, let alone india, not really an india specific issue these days.

What exactly do you mean by quick bowlers? As in express pace bowlers like Shoaib or B Lee?

 

[r3alist]

Yea i mean express rather than quick.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Akhtar and Lee are two of the quickest ever, it was pretty unusual to have both kicking around at the same time. The thing is that now the average bowler is getting quicker so the blokes at 145kph don't stand out as much.

 

[Furball]

I'm not convinced that genetics doesn't play a part - how many genuinely great athletes in any discipline have been produced by India?

 

[hendrix]

I don't think fastbowling as an athletic pursuit requires the degree of muscle mass that we associate with genetically gifted gene pools.

I actually don't think it's much to do with muscle at all. More to do with harnessing the elastic potential from the tendons and muscles themselves.

 

[smash84]

I don't think fastbowling as an athletic pursuit requires the degree of muscle mass that we associate with genetically gifted gene pools.

I actually don't think it's much to do with muscle at all. More to do with harnessing the elastic potential from the tendons and muscles themselves.

Agree to some extent. To be able to bowl quick I guess strong shoulder and back is most important.

I have a friend in Karachi who was almost thin as a tooth pick but he had a good shoulder. He could bowl with serious pace and his throw came in from the boundary right on top of the bails, very quick and very flat.

 

[r3alist]

India do produce decent prospects, this to me suggests diet not the issue otherwise they wouldn't be decent prospects to begin with, look at irfan, or rp singh.

What they cant do is develop, Pakistan are not great but are better at this.

Take muhammad irfan, plucked from obscurity he has become a dangerous bowler.... So someone picked him, then people developed him into something better, but this scenario never happens with india.