Dhoni Vs Gilchrist in ODIs.

[honestbharani]

Gilly can be clutch, and Dhoni can also be clutch guys. They've both performed on the biggest ODI stage there is.

I am not denying that. Just this laughable notion that ODI WC finals are the only clutch games there is in that format.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I am not denying that. Just this laughable notion that ODI WC finals are the only clutch games there is in that format.

Did anyone even say that though?

 

[Burgey]

They aren't the only clutch games, but they're the clutchiest.

 

[viriya]

You're not evaluating them just over a few matches. You're looking at fantastic players who are both superb and at ways and means to separate them when deciding to put them into a side. If I had my druthers I'd probably play them both tbh, because they were both so good at their batting roles, which were very different. Maybe Dhoni can keep if the team bats first, I dunno.

That would be ok if the careers were similar.

But they aren't - Dhoni wins hands down and 3 matches don't swing matters.

 

[Burgey]

I don't think their careers are especially dissimilar. They both played for a long time and both were great players in, if not the same, then overlapping eras. But they both played very different roles for their teams with the bat.

Are you going to tell us why Dhoni wins hands down, and can you please do so without reference to three decimal points, because frankly that's extremely tedious.

 

[Daemon]

Dhoni regularly performed on the biggest stages of all, India v Pakistan ODI matches. His record against them is absolutely ridiculous. Even when he was out of form he pulled out that insane 113 walking in to a score of 5-25 or whatever.

Gilchrist never had the pressure of his house being stoned and effigies being burned. He never had the teams fortunes resting on him because he was surrounded by so many ATGs who could cover up if he failed. Opponents used to regularly **** themselves before even stepping out onto the park while they were playing that ATG team (of course credit also has to go to Gilchrist there for being part of the reason they were scared), but Dhoni never had that because no one was ever afraid of taking guard against Munaf Patel and RP Singh.

Dhoni is better. Gilchrist was amazing, but Dhoni is better. He just is.

 

[viriya]

imo Gilchrist is the most overrated batsman of the GOAT aussie teams of the 2000s.. especially in Tests.

 

[Burgey]

Meh. Effigies. As has been noted on this site regularly, effigies are a daily occurrence on the subcontinent. There's nothing to them. Dhoni lives in a palace ffs, these things don't effect him. Jesus Christ, mate. If you reckon an ODI series between India and Pakistan is greater pressure than a WC KO game you're kidding yourself. I could understand you saying it about a test series, but an ODI series that isn't a WC is like music - some people think it's really important for whatever reason, but really it's just background noise to the important things in life.

As for pressure, Gilchrist went in first. He set the tone for the innings. Sure he had great players around him, but so did Dhoni ffs. The best years of Dhoni's career coincided with the advent of Kohli and Rohit Sharma, and he had Tendulkar still stinking up the place too. As was Sehwag. FMD in the 2007 WC Dhoni averaged nine. NINE! Gilchrist's first WC was his shoddiest, averaging 22, but he averaged over 40 in his other two opening up.

What a crock to pull out the effigies/ pressure thing. It's the same crap people use to justify Tendulkar being the greatest player of his or any other era - a billion people, blah blah blah. Stiff ****. He wasn't any greater because he had a billion people supporting him. This is the turdiest of turd arguments. Dhoni > Gilchrist cos 1 billion people makes life harder than 24 million. Bullshit. Tendulkar > Lara because 1 billion people. Bullshit. If they're better, they're better. But they aren't better because they were born in a country with a bigger population. Jesus Christ man.

 

[Burgey]

imo Gilchrist is the most overrated batsman of the GOAT aussie teams of the 2000s.. especially in Tests.

More than Hayden? Big call.

 

[Burgey]

On the "lots of fans means you're better because pressure" thing, today is Phar Lap''s 90th birthday. Imagine how that poor bastard felt. If it did no good it would literally get flogged.

 

[Shri]

On the "lots of fans means you're better because pressure" thing, today is Phar Lap''s 90th birthday. Imagine how that poor bastard felt. If it did no good it would literally get flogged.

No the idiots who say that are going about the argument the wrong way. India has a lot of people, like a really incomprehensible number of fans who think that Sachin is the best. So, it doesn't really matter if someone else is better because eventually, only the intelligent ones or the fringe fans from other countries are the ones who are going to go on about Kallisball or Bradman. If its a popularity contest, Indian players are going to win every time and their fans will let you know their opinions, but in actual debates? Who gives a ****?

 

[Burgey]

Yeah. What's that got to do with whether being a great player with a billion fans makes you better than a great player with, say, 2 million fans?

 

[Shri]

It doesn't matter. We win our arguments by aggressive breeding and teaching kids to shout louder than anyone.

 

[Burgey]

Sounds like the Loony Right.

 

[Jono]

Dhoni regularly performed on the biggest stages of all, India v Pakistan ODI matches. His record against them is absolutely ridiculous. Even when he was out of form he pulled out that insane 113 walking in to a score of 5-25 or whatever.

Gilchrist never had the pressure of his house being stoned and effigies being burned. He never had the teams fortunes resting on him because he was surrounded by so many ATGs who could cover up if he failed. Opponents used to regularly **** themselves before even stepping out onto the park while they were playing that ATG team (of course credit also has to go to Gilchrist there for being part of the reason they were scared), but Dhoni never had that because no one was ever afraid of taking guard against Munaf Patel and RP Singh.

Dhoni is better. Gilchrist was amazing, but Dhoni is better. He just is.

You mention that Gilly was surrounded by ATGs when Dhoni has had Sachin and Kohli in his teams bookending his career?

They're both ****ing awesome. You just pick one or the other based on role imo.

 

[Jono]

Effigies argument is so ****. Because it means any Indian or Pakistani with a record just as good as a non Indian or Pakistani will be rated higher because their fans are more extreme? Silly.

Dhonis record as a batsman and in big games stands on its own. Doesn't need the pressure of a billion argument which is generally pretty lame nowadays.

 

[harsh.ag]

Dhoni because he doesn't raise his hand with an annoyed look when out LBW.

 

[Burgey]

Gilchrist because he doesn't claim blatant bounce catches at Lord's....

slightly off topic, how good was the 03 WC final in providing Zaheer Khan's greatest humiliation?

 

[Shri]

Gilchrist because he doesn't claim blatant bounce catches at Lord's....

slightly off topic, how good was the 03 WC final in providing Zaheer Khan's greatest humiliation?

8 years later in his next WC final, his first few overs were maidens(or absurdly economical) so he recovered.

Edit: First 3 overs were maidens and he got a wicket off his 19th delivery and his 4th over went for 2 runs.

"What a change 8 years bring -- Zaheer in 2003 0/28 in 3 overs; in 2011 3 maidens in 3 overs.. Impressive even though bowling to Hayden/Gilly is different from bowling to Dilshan/Tharanga," says Sundar.

Final: India v Sri Lanka at Mumbai, Apr 2, 2011 | Cricket Commentary | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[ankitj]

Daemon is being sarcastic. None of you are getting it.