kyear2
International Coach
Brilliant to pace, like.liwterally brilliant. Mostly untested vs quality spin and wasn't as spectacular for Harper and co.
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Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of Wicketkeepers Poll
- Thread starter Line and Length
- Start date
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
Came as a surprise to me.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, I know. Just didn't expect him ahead of guys like Dhoni, Marsh, Engineer, Cameron, de Kock, etc. guys who were either better keep or similar keep and better bat.
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
It's interesting to see how batting prowess can lift some keepers above more critically acclaimed glovemen. I don't include Gilchrist in this critique as his dismissals per match sets him above others.
It's pleasing to see Oldfield make the list. His percentage of dismissals via stumping (40%) is amazing - but then he kept to Grimmett and O'Reilly.
Perhaps Tallon is the most underrated on CW.
It's pleasing to see Oldfield make the list. His percentage of dismissals via stumping (40%) is amazing - but then he kept to Grimmett and O'Reilly.
Perhaps Tallon is the most underrated on CW.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Personally I put more emphasis on batting than keeping of a keeper, like 60-40. So Tallon's batting isn't cutting it for me, not even close, especially given there are keepers who are more than competent like Jayawardene and Saha, who also knows how to hold a bat. Might be too harsh on older keepers, but I think the sport has moved from a place where you can afford your keeper not knowing to hold a bat.
Coronis
International Coach
He kept to Grimmett and O’Reilly sure, but many keepers earlier and after also kept to multiple spinners and never came close to replicating him. You look at guys like Engineer and Kirmani who both kept to the quartet and they aren’t even close lol.
To me his 52 stumpings in 54 matches is one of the most amazing records in tests.
Probably the best shout to break it is Dickwella, 53 tests in 10 years, only 30. Still only has 27, would probably need to play still about 40.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Yep. sangakkara is no doubt Top 5, people too keen on rating those who can't hold bat.Thinking this Poll is losing credibility if Sangakarra and Pant are voted the 9th and 10th best wicket keeper batsmen of all-time
OverratedSanity
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Pant is better than most guys getting votes anyway. It's just people blindly under-rating the present. Unlike the batting and bowling lists, I find it impossible to evaluate older keepers for whom there's little to no footage available. Keeping stats are horribly unreliable and tell us nothing. All we're left with is anecdotal testimony and I refuse to use solely that in the absence of reliable stats to measure their effectiveness. From hereon in, I'm not giving any votes to keepers pre 1970 or so on principle.
TheJediBrah
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So the guy running a wicket-keeper rating poll thinks dismissals per match means something? I'm going to ignore this.
Pant is a joke but Sangakkara should absolutely be in the top 10, at the very leastThinking this Poll is losing credibility if Sangakarra and Pant are voted the 9th and 10th best wicket keeper batsmen of all-time
My original post only had Pant at 10 being not credible, but I added Sangakarra later because he wasn't a keeper in 65% of his Tests. I hate that people rate him as a keeper batting #3 while averaging 57 with the bat when that is simply not true
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CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
How is Pant a joke? His keeping is not bad at all.
kyear2
International Coach
Not bad at all isn't exactly glowing praise.
Socerer 01
International Captain
Pant’s keeping was pretty good pre accident, a lot of the memeing of it comes from his very early international career when he wasnt as good keeping to spinners
trundler
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Pant has already produced more knocks of consequence than any wicket keeper batsman bar Gilchrist and Watling. Even if he takes a small hit in pure keeping ability, the fact that he's a legitimate top 5 batsman is pretty unique. The gap in batting impact between Pant and Dhoni/De Kock is analogous to that between Miller and Dev.
Reality is the terms of the poll are out of whack with value - a wicket keeper who can bat as a top order player is so much more value than a pure keeper who is a lesser bat. In that sense, it’s a travesty that Pant is ranked below cricketers who could barely hold a bat like Oldfield and played when dinosaurs ruled the earth
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
flibbertyjibber
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Keepers, not seen Knott and Taylor or Marsh but I'd say Russell was the best I've seen followed by Healy, Dujon, Gilchrist and Jayawardene.
Honourable mentions for Dhoni, Foakes and Watling.
Honourable mentions for Dhoni, Foakes and Watling.
flibbertyjibber
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Utter garbage
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
From the outset I hoped that voters wouldn't overly look at batting ability. I suggested a 70/30 keeping/batting ratio be considered. Without being too critical of voters, some appear to have adopted a 30/70 ratio.
Since WWII there has been less emphasis on purist keepers and more on keeper/batsmen with Knott being the trend-setter in this regard. Since then selectors, and spectators, have been accepting of batsmen/keepers whose keeping skills are basic, and in some cases barely adequate.
Having said that, keepers such as Gilchrist, Healy and Knott have been excellent/very good keepers and richly deserve their high rankings. Unfortunately, highly skilled keepers such as Tallon, Evans and Russell have often been overlooked. Fortunately the well documented skills of Oldfield saw him ranked in our poll.
Since WWII there has been less emphasis on purist keepers and more on keeper/batsmen with Knott being the trend-setter in this regard. Since then selectors, and spectators, have been accepting of batsmen/keepers whose keeping skills are basic, and in some cases barely adequate.
Having said that, keepers such as Gilchrist, Healy and Knott have been excellent/very good keepers and richly deserve their high rankings. Unfortunately, highly skilled keepers such as Tallon, Evans and Russell have often been overlooked. Fortunately the well documented skills of Oldfield saw him ranked in our poll.