Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of batsmen poll

[Fuller Pilch]

Not enough to justify a 5 points avg difference imo; but let's agree to disagree then.

I still put ABDV ahead personally, but just saying that is why some may put Amla higher.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Not enough to justify a 5 points avg difference imo; but let's agree to disagree then.

Amla was averaging 50 after the same number of tests AB played. There's not as much in it as the difference in final average suggests.

de villiers numbers do suffer a bit from his opening stint though.

 

[Coronis]

So just for fun… the records of the current players chosen in 2022 and 2024 in that time period

Steve Smith 10th to 8th 24 matches 44 innings 1675 @ 46.52 5 tons
Kane Williamson 39th to 27th 14 matches 26 innings 1471 @ 63.95 8 tons
Joe Root 36th to 28th 23 matches 41 innings 1847 @ 52.77 6 tons
Virat Kohli 38th to 29th 12 matches 20 innings 805 @ 42.36 2 tons

Crazy stat - Australia have played 1 more match in that time period compared with England. Smith and Root have played every test since then, Williamson has missed 1, Kohli has missed 5.

And the highest ranked players in 2022 not yet selected (currently at #30)

Denis Compton - 24
AB de Villiers - 28
Geoffrey Boycott - 29
Andy Flower - 30

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ah **** I forgot Andy flower completely smh

 

[howitzer]

So just for fun… the records of the current players chosen in 2022 and 2024 in that time period

Steve Smith 10th to 8th 24 matches 44 innings 1675 @ 46.52 5 tons
Kane Williamson 39th to 27th 14 matches 26 innings 1471 @ 63.95 8 tons
Joe Root 36th to 28th 23 matches 41 innings 1847 @ 52.77 6 tons
Virat Kohli 38th to 29th 12 matches 20 innings 805 @ 42.36 2 tons

And the highest ranked players in 2022 not yet selected (currently at #30)

Denis Compton - 24
AB de Villiers - 28
Geoffrey Boycott - 29
Andy Flower - 30

Think Compton was a bit high on that list. Have to admit I'd forgotten about Flower. Currently considering changing my May vote to him.

Edit: Just did it.

 

[Line and Length]

If Headley and Pollock can make the Top 20 with just over 20 Tests and averages around 60, I'm making a case for Eddie Paynter to sneak into the Top 50 with 20 Tests and an average around 60 (59.23). There are definitely higher profile players yet to make the list but he warrants consideration.

 

[Coronis]

If Headley and Pollock can make the Top 20 with just over 20 Tests and averages around 60, I'm making a case for Eddie Paynter to sneak into the Top 50 with 20 Tests and an average around 60 (59.23). There are definitely higher profile players yet to make the list but he warrants consideration.

His record is propped up to an extent tbh. His 4 centuries in 20 matches - 3 were against a pathetic South African attack in 38-39 (seriously, Bruce Mitchell was bowling long spells - none of their bowlers have career averages below 40). His lone ton vs Australia came in an innings with 3 other tons (though clearly his was the best) as well as 3 tons from the Australian side.

Only one of his tons came in a match with a result. He also never batted above 5 against Australia. I think he was a good player but his record doesn’t match up to the quality of players we’re voting in right now.

 

[nick-o]

I'm surprised to see the gulf in ratings for Barrington (20th) and May (who looks borderline to make the top 50). I always thought contempories viewed May as the better batsman.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Might as well start voting for Voges it seems.....

 

[Line and Length]

His record is propped up to an extent tbh. His 4 centuries in 20 matches - 3 were against a pathetic South African attack in 38-39 (seriously, Bruce Mitchell was bowling long spells - none of their bowlers have career averages below 40). His lone ton vs Australia came in an innings with 3 other tons (though clearly his was the best) as well as 3 tons from the Australian side.

Only one of his tons came in a match with a result. He also never batted above 5 against Australia. I think he was a good player but his record doesn’t match up to the quality of players we’re voting in right now.

This may well be the case but, in 7 Tests against Australia, he averaged 84.43 despite only the one ton. In those 7 Tests a player called Bradman played and averaged in the low 70s. Fair comparison? Of course not, but it is evidence of a player who more than merits some consideration.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Barrington, Compton, and May should probably all be pretty close

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Suprised to see G Smith above ABD as well

 

[Coronis]

This may well be the case but, in 7 Tests against Australia, he averaged 84.43 despite only the one ton. In those 7 Tests a player called Bradman played and averaged in the low 70s. Fair comparison? Of course not, but it is evidence of a player who more than merits some consideration.

Lets be real, he has 4 not outs in those 11 innings. 3 being 1, 14 and 21.

As I’ve said he’s a good player, but not in this tier.

 

[capt_Luffy]

This may well be the case but, in 7 Tests against Australia, he averaged 84.43 despite only the one ton. In those 7 Tests a player called Bradman played and averaged in the low 70s. Fair comparison? Of course not, but it is evidence of a player who more than merits some consideration.

FC average of 42; except his mammoth double ton, scored 375 in 10 innings vs Australia; averages 25 against WI..... Phil Mead was a better batsman.

 

[CricAddict]

FC average of 42; except his mammoth double ton, scored 375 in 10 innings vs Australia; averages 25 against WI..... Phil Mead was a better batsman.

There will be someone who responds along the lines of "take away all the good innings and say the batsman is bad". Let it rather be me.

 

[capt_Luffy]

There will be someone who responds along the lines of "take away all the good innings and say the batsman is bad". Let it rather be me.

I actually believe Paynter was a really good batsman. His 200 was marvelous, had a good 76 and a great innings out of hospital bed. It's just that he really isn't Pollock or Headley, not even close. His average is decently inflated, and the reason he played only 20 odd Test matches was not being good enough to make into the team, not some condition like the aforementioned two. As I said, Phil Mead was a better batsman.

 

[peterhrt]

Like Leyland, Paynter was picked as a left-hander to counter Australian leg-spin. Both justified their selections. Paynter should have been chosen to tour Australia in 1936-37 but wasn't.

It was said that only three batsmen consistently got the better of Bill O'Reilly: Leyland, Hassett and the Tasmanian Badcock.

 

[Coronis]

Like Leyland, Paynter was picked as a left-hander to counter Australian leg-spin. Both justified their selections. Paynter should have been chosen to tour Australia in 1936-37 but wasn't.

It was said that only three batsmen consistently got the better of Bill O'Reilly: Leyland, Hassett and the Tasmanian Badcock.

Neither of the other two deserve to be ranked amongst the top 40 test batsmen either

 

[Line and Length]

Sehwag and Hayden were closely ranked last poll. Greenidge has jumped ahead of both and Sehwag may have established himself ahead of Hayden. I agree with both,

 

[Line and Length]

Ah **** I forgot Andy flower completely smh

As did others evidently judging by his fall. Another to drop on his 2022 rankings was Worrell yet the other two Ws either rose a little or maintained their place.

Voting numbers have dropped from their peak (around 30) to below 20 and there are still worthy contenders for the final places. Lack of interest/knowledge of lower ranked players may be a factor but I'm sure most participating members have a fair grasp of where they see the remaining candidates placed.