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Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of batsmen poll
- Thread starter CricAddict
- Start date
OverratedSanity
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Williamson has an amazing record with much more consistent year-to-year output than Root and Kohli but it's not really an exaggeration to say his away record is Sehwag-esque. Ranking him right now is confusing.
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In Trumper's day, first-class cricket in England was often regarded as more important than Test matches. The view was held even by chairman of selectors Lord Hawke. Amateurs were more likely to withdraw from England duty, having found something better to do, than to let their county down.
Cataloguing only Test performances is of limited value when assessing players of this time. When Trumper died in 1915 his first-class average of 44.57 was higher than anyone whose career had ended.
The 1902 English season was very wet and many pitches were extremely difficult for batting. Contemporary reports are clear that Trumper's batting on them was on a different level from anything seen before. There was still a reluctance to compare anyone with Grace, but even he did not get away with the risks Trumper took on rain-damaged pitches that year.
Patience and survival was the accepted method on these surfaces. Trumper's approach was entirely different. Blast the most dangerous bowlers out of the attack early, then milk their replacements. And it was all done with an ease and grace that was just as remarkable.
An exceptionally quick eye and reflexes were required. Wisden believed in 1902 that only a young man in top health could play that way, and predicted that Trumper would not be able to keep it up in the longer term. That proved correct. His subsequent health was never robust, with his wife urging in vain for him to play less.
Right up until the time that uncovered pitches were being phased out, those old enough to remember claimed that Trumper's batting on them in 1902 had never been equalled. Monty Noble's opinion counted for as much as anyone's. Until his death in 1940 he always maintained that Trumper at his best was the greatest batsman, and that most of his contemporaries agreed.
In summary, it might be concluded that during a fairly short peak Trumper was the best-ever batsman on a bad pitch.
trundler
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Whilst all 3 are HTBs, Walcott at least murdered strong bowling sides at home which you cant say about the other 2. That puts him above soft HTBs like KW and Yousuf.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
Wasn't Ranji's FC average higher??
Yes but he hadn't finished by 1915. Played the odd game after the war.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
Ah yes, forgot about those few games in 1920. Thanks man, I really appreciate your response.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
He’s not as good as Kohli obviously but I don’t think this is worse than Dravids record tbh. Dravid had an extremely poor record against SA and Aus (I still rate him as a top 20 batsman and an ATG).
But a great record at least against England and very good against NZ and Pak.
And Dravid had iconic innings against Aus and SA which KW doesn’t have
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Kane has been very good against SA (their full strength attacks) and Pak as well. I’m just pointing out that they’ve both got holes in their record but I’m probably wasting my time lol. KW seems to be rated a lot higher in the real world than on these forums.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
KW got ranked 27th; higher than his contemporaries like Virat, Root, ABD and older legends like Trumper, Compton, Harvey, Worrell, Kanhai, May, Boycott, Greenidge, etc..... I don't think he really is underrated much here.
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PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Yea that’s true. He is pretty clearly better than most of those guys apart from Kohli and maybe Root though.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
Arguable. I will have him behind Trumper definitely, can make arguments for a few of the others, but yeah, he is ahead most of them imo.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Dravid
Home avg : 51
Away avg : 53
KW
Home avg : 66
Away avg : 42
Away + Neutral : 45
Dravid vs each team-
Aus @ 38.6
SA @ 33.8
Pak @ 53.7
Eng @ 60.9
NZ @ 63.8
KW vs each team-
Aus @ 36.9
Ind @ 37.8
Eng @ 36.8
SA @ 47.5
Pak @ 66.0
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
They don’t seem too far apart once you add some context. They’ve played in completely different eras but I guess you ignore that since you also think Ponting is better than Smith lol. I still rate Dravid higher due to longevity but I don’t think there’s much difference between them.
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centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
This is what you are saying in reponse to stats which decisively show Dravid is a whole tier above KW. And who is being deluded about eras? As if Dravid faced inferior bowlers
Dravid faced the best Australian team of all time. Dravid has faced Ambrose, Walsh, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Murali, Warne, McGrath, Donald, Pollock, Steyn, Anderson...
And when have I rated Ponting 'higher' than Smith? I say at the same stage of their careers (110 tests) they are more or less equal, or close.
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