Dean Jones says England should produce seaming wickets

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I don't think he is suggesting that Harmison and Flintoff are necessarily going to out-bowl McGrath and Gillespie on seaming wickets, but that playing on seaming wickets might generally reduce the gap between the teams. The English players have more experience in seaming conditions generally, and the Australian bowlers are capable of wasting seaming conditions too, particularly Gillespie when he isn't on song. On a flat deck I can see Australia belting a 500+ score and then McGrath, Gillespie and Warne making scoring extremely difficult for the English batsmen and eventually beating them the same way that they usually do on flat decks. On a seaming wicket if luck goes their way the English bowlers could at least reduce the Australian total, and I think the overall chances of them winning a test or two is better under those circumstances.

It's also possible of course that McGrath and Gillespie could destroy them on a seaming wicket, but I think England have to back their abilities, and I find the likelyhood of the English batsmen surviving McGrath and company on a seamer higher than Harmison, Hoggard and Flintoff running through the Australian batting lineup on a flat track.

That's exactly Jones' point.

England have not got a hope if they are banking on Giles to produce remotely comparable figure to Warne.

Likewise, there is nothing in their bowling attack to suggest that they can contain and/or frustrate the Aussies on a flat wicket.

So, what's left?

 

[Neil Pickup]

That's exactly Jones' point.

England have not got a hope if they are banking on Giles to produce remotely comparable figure to Warne.

Likewise, there is nothing in their bowling attack to suggest that they can contain and/or frustrate the Aussies on a flat wicket.

So, what's left?

I'd have more faith in our bowlers making use of a wicket with bounce but little extra lateral movement to what overhead conditions will generate, then the batsmen surving any of Australia's quicks on a seamer.

 

[aussie]

err lee wont play a single test unless the aussie selectors get too much to drink one night, and i think its fairly obvious that mcgrath is more suited to wickets that offer movement that he is to bouncy uneven wickets. in fact if anything the english pacers have more pace than the australian bowlers, so you'd think if anything they'd be more suited to bouncy uneven wickets than anything.

hehehe, you cant be sure tec if Lee continues to bowl well especially in the Natwest series & natwest challenge & per say Kasper goes off the boil a bit, Lee could well and play in the ashes test.

Similar Dilemma on the cards with Hodge & Clarke
[/QUOTE

 

[marc71178]

I think it was Scaly piscine with the turner theory, and I think it *might* work. Warne is going to turn it at will on anything, so we might as well help our spinner too. If you want to nullify Warne your best bet is probably to prepare a pitch which doesn’t bounce.

Dig up the wickets and replace them with Sponge!!!

 

[tooextracool]

all we need to do is just keep up the wickets that we prepared last year.

 

[age_master]

Similar Dilemma on the cards with Hodge & Clarke
[/QUOTE

except Hodge wont play in the Nat west series

 

[tooextracool]

Because Kaspa's form has been so brilliant right - he's failed in all bar one innings of his last 4 tests and was dropped for another.

Dont let your blind bias towards Lee cloud your judgement AGAIN.

and was kaspa dropped because of poor performances? no he was dropped because of intoxicated selectors who wanted to try something different.
AFAIC he bowled brilliantly throughout the 2nd test in NZ, even if he didnt in the first and the third. either way he wont be dropped for the ashes unless he bowls extremely extremely poorly, the likes of which i really doubt will happen.

 

[tooextracool]

prepare turners and Australia will play the Macgill as well. whos the 2nd English spinner?

macgill counts towards england.

 

[age_master]

either way he wont be dropped for the ashes unless he bowls extremely extremely poorly, the likes of which i really doubt will happen.

hehe yeah half the games he plays will probably be vs Bangladesh

 

[Zinzan]

i've lost pretty much any respect ive had for dean jones. clearly he knows nothing about england or the aussie bowlers. seriously only a fool would think that bowlers like harmison and flintoff would do better than mcgrath, gillespie and kaspa on a seamer friendly wicket(thats really feeding them to their strength really), especially considering that the above 2 have a history of wasting seamer friendly conditions. if deans jones didnt already know that both harmison and flintoff are bowlers who prefer bounce over movement, then he clearly has no idea what hes talking about.

Totally disagree. Australia batsmen will murder England on a flat deck. Then Mcgrath, Gillispie, Kaspa and particularly Warne if it dry's late in the match will still make it difficult for English batsmen.

England's best chance is to win some vital tosses on green seamers and try to knock through the aussie batting order early. The fact that Australia love to score at 4 an over means they could get themselves in trouble on a green seamer if batting conditions aren't easy.

I'm particularly suprised you wouldn't want green seamers TEC given your theory on Hayden struggling on seaming decks. Since you believe he's a falt -track bully. Flat tracks would be playing right into his strength?

The other problem for England in preparing flat decks is that Warne suddenly becomes the main danger man late in the match. Far more dangerous than Giles would be.

Even if the flat decks are bouncy, that won't bother the Australian batsmen who are used to and love bounce. Ponting, Martyn, Clarke, Katich and Gilchrist in particular.

I totally agree with Dean Jones

 

[aussie]

except Hodge wont play in the Nat west series

yeah i know...., but this dilemma is realated tot he test series mate

 

[aussie]

How could you agree with Dean Jones Zinzan?, i for one think Jones needs to think about what he has said if green wickets are prepared for one AUS have the firepower that would run through englands batting line-up while AUS have the batsmen better equipped to ahndle these conditions the only batsmen for me who might have a problems are Hayden, Clarke & Langer to an extent looking at his technique.

Of all the bowlers only Hoggard would be anturally suited for those conditons. But the arguements will go on has i posted in a prvious post their are too much ifs & buts on what england should do, whay wickets should be prepared for the series. Too much is in the aussies favour thats why it simple but disappointing to say England DONT HAVE A CHANCE

 

[Zinzan]

How could you agree with Dean Jones Zinzan?, i for one think Jones needs to think about what he has said if green wickets are prepared for one AUS have the firepower that would run through englands batting line-up while AUS have the batsmen better equipped to ahndle these conditions the only batsmen for me who might have a problems are Hayden, Clarke & Langer to an extent looking at his technique.

Of all the bowlers only Hoggard would be anturally suited for those conditons. But the arguements will go on has i posted in a prvious post their are too much ifs & buts on what england should do, whay wickets should be prepared for the series. Too much is in the aussies favour thats why it simple but disappointing to say England DONT HAVE A CHANCE

I'm not saying England are likely to win on seaming tracks. I just think sometimes Bowling pitches can be a great leveller and reduce the gaps between sides. I believe Eng's best chance is to win a vital toss and roll Australia cheaply in the first innings on a green track.

Can you really see Australia been troubled on Flat decks?

They will love that. They can score at 4-4.5 an over and create enough pressure to get a result even if England do get 400 in the first innings.

 

[aussie]

Honestly mate i feel if England do manage to roll over AUS somehow on Geen pitches they will have their work cut out againts McGrath & the rest as well

 

[Zinzan]

Honestly mate i feel if England do manage to roll over AUS somehow on Geen pitches they will have their work cut out againts McGrath & the rest as well

You didn't answer my question.

Can you see the Aussie's been troubled on a flat-deck?

I agree flat decks are more likely to produce draws, but the speed in which Aust score their runs these days makes in difficult to hang on for a draw against them and normally its flat deck that are more likely to deterioate and dry more quickly bring Warne into play.

 

[aussie]

not at all mate, flat tracks wont help England much

 

[Zinzan]

not at all mate, flat tracks wont help England much

exactly my point.So why not try and make life difficult for Aust by making bowler friendly conditions and hope from Englands point of view that they may win a vital toss and get Aust on the backfoot from a start of the match which will create pressure, something the aussie aren't that used to.

For the record I still don't give England a chance regardless of the pitch conditions, I just feel that if they were to pull off an inlikely victory, it would be on a wicket that was difficult for batting.

 

[marc71178]

and was kaspa dropped because of poor performances? no he was dropped because of intoxicated selectors who wanted to try something different.

I don't think you can blame the selectors for wanting to play 2 spinners but not have the lower order starting at 7 to be fair.

 

[chaminda_00]

I don't think you can blame the selectors for wanting to play 2 spinners but not have the lower order starting at 7 to be fair.

Are you talking about the team that played Pakistan in the last test cus Watson is a lot more then a lower order batsmen he averages 45 in FC and 31 in ODIs. If your just talking about the Ashes squad which Watson didn't make then they will probably drop Kaspra and play MacGill as the second spinner if England produce spinning tracks.

I wonder why the English aren't afraid of MacGill considering he averages 24 aganist them and continues to roll county batting line ups over their.

 

[tooextracool]

Totally disagree. Australia batsmen will murder England on a flat deck. Then Mcgrath, Gillispie, Kaspa and particularly Warne if it dry's late in the match will still make it difficult for English batsmen.

err the aussie batsmen will absolutely paste the england bowlers in seaming conditions, the english bowlers have wasted seaming conditions time and time again.

England's best chance is to win some vital tosses on green seamers and try to knock through the aussie batting order early. The fact that Australia love to score at 4 an over means they could get themselves in trouble on a green seamer if batting conditions aren't easy.

because who are these english bowlers that like bowling in seamer friendly conditions? almost all of them prefer faster, bouncier wickets or even slower lower wickets than seamer friendly wickets

I'm particularly suprised you wouldn't want green seamers TEC given your theory on Hayden struggling on seaming decks. Since you believe he's a falt -track bully. Flat tracks would be playing right into his strength?

hayden is one batsman, australia consists of 7, most of whom are much better than hayden anyways. mind you i havent suggested that england prepare flat tracks, id much rather that they prepared the slow low uneven bounce wickets that they prepared last summer.

The other problem for England in preparing flat decks is that Warne suddenly becomes the main danger man late in the match. Far more dangerous than Giles would be.

err what? warne will be dangerous in any conditions, hes proven that many many times in the past. and AFAIC, if anything the english batsman are just as capable as the aussie batsmen on a turner, especially considering that bar hayden, martyn and katich, none of the others are particularly brilliant against spin.

Even if the flat decks are bouncy, that won't bother the Australian batsmen who are used to and love bounce. Ponting, Martyn, Clarke, Katich and Gilchrist in particular.

I totally agree with Dean Jones

no, martyn, katich, ponting and gilchrist will score on seamer friendly wickets or bouncy wickets, because they are all very good players. fact is that england's bowlers would be more suited to bouncier wickets, and good bowling is more likely to get batsmen out regardless of the conditions, as opposed to poor bowling on seaming conditions.