Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
The tribe has spoken!
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
CW decides the 32 best test* opening batsmen of all time - The countdown thread!
- Thread starter mr_mister
- Start date
trundler
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Did you see much of Turner bat? Would be keen to hear your viewsThe tribe has spoken!
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
a certain posting popping him 5th may have been a little tongue in cheek - though i encouraged that particular poster submit a list... but my list with Atherton at 15th was genuine-ish. I honestly think he was a legend and arguably the best modern test bat to average under 40
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
#25: Justin Langer (17 points)
Lists featured on: 4/29
Top 5 finishes: 1
Highest finish: 5th(1)
The opening line from his cricinfo profile sums him up pretty well. Justin Langer was perhaps the first Test opener in history to average in the mid-forties yet always be scrabbling for his spot in the side.
And that's only really taking into account his whole career - where he was in and out of the number 3 position in the '90s. As an opener Langer's record was tremendous - he nearly averaged 50 there and his long term opening partnership with Matt Hayden soon eclipsed the already amazing work Taylor and Slater did in the '90s to play a huge part in turning Australia into an almost unstoppable force by the mid 2000s.
Yet Justin was always seen has an ugly player who had to graft and earn every run - his technique didn't look very pleasing to the eye and so I think it greatly affected the view of him as a batsman. But the results speak for themselves really. Overall he averaged over 40 against all the top 8 nations except Sri Lanka and West Indies and against these 2 sides he had to endure a few tricky series in the '90s when he was still batting at 3 and finding his feet in the side.
Langer was a fighter and he had already proved this against the tougher bowlers of the 90s before becoming an opener and reaping far greater rewards in the 2000s. In his test debut way back in '93 he lasted over 4 hours to make 54 against a Windies pace attack in full flight after copping a Bishop bouncer on the head.
In the greatest battle Australia faced in their period of dominance after Langer became an opener, the '05 Ashes - he was the leading run scorer for his side and didn't shy away from the fight one bit.
As a personality/coach since retirement I've occasionally found Langer's comments and views a bit cringe, but at least he's not a hypocrite. He really was that tough uncompromising player he wants his players to be - so I can't fault him too much.
Lists featured on: 4/29
Top 5 finishes: 1
Highest finish: 5th(1)
The opening line from his cricinfo profile sums him up pretty well. Justin Langer was perhaps the first Test opener in history to average in the mid-forties yet always be scrabbling for his spot in the side.
And that's only really taking into account his whole career - where he was in and out of the number 3 position in the '90s. As an opener Langer's record was tremendous - he nearly averaged 50 there and his long term opening partnership with Matt Hayden soon eclipsed the already amazing work Taylor and Slater did in the '90s to play a huge part in turning Australia into an almost unstoppable force by the mid 2000s.
Yet Justin was always seen has an ugly player who had to graft and earn every run - his technique didn't look very pleasing to the eye and so I think it greatly affected the view of him as a batsman. But the results speak for themselves really. Overall he averaged over 40 against all the top 8 nations except Sri Lanka and West Indies and against these 2 sides he had to endure a few tricky series in the '90s when he was still batting at 3 and finding his feet in the side.
Langer was a fighter and he had already proved this against the tougher bowlers of the 90s before becoming an opener and reaping far greater rewards in the 2000s. In his test debut way back in '93 he lasted over 4 hours to make 54 against a Windies pace attack in full flight after copping a Bishop bouncer on the head.
In the greatest battle Australia faced in their period of dominance after Langer became an opener, the '05 Ashes - he was the leading run scorer for his side and didn't shy away from the fight one bit.
As a personality/coach since retirement I've occasionally found Langer's comments and views a bit cringe, but at least he's not a hypocrite. He really was that tough uncompromising player he wants his players to be - so I can't fault him too much.
Last edited:
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
#24: Sid Barnes (19 points)
Lists featured on: 3/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 7th(1)
In my line of work(aged care) I've occasionally encountered massive cricket fans over the age of 85 - I always love to pick their brains on certain players that they saw when I have the time and recently I was lucky enough to meet an old Irish man of ~88 who was a total cricket tragic and still had razor sharp wit and memory. He attended Bradman's final test in the '48 ashes(though he apparently missed a day or two due to also being in town for the 1948 London Olympics). After getting some interesting opinions on the cricket ability of some of these players he saw many times in person, I asked him his opinion on Barnes.
His mood completely changed from matter-of-fact to a mix of laughter and disbelief - clearly he was remembering an incident in particular. 'He was a clown!' were his words.
And it seems that is what people most remember about Barnes. The picture I used is from when he was made 12th man for a shield game in the early '50s and tried to have a bit of fun with it. He did the job in a full suit and some of the refreshments he brought out to the players during the drinks break included cigars and a portable radio.
Barne's actual test record is a damn good one. He averaged 63 overall from 13 tests - as an opener 71 from only 10. The man could definitely bat. If he had just played a few more games he could have easily gotten the Headley/Pollock legacy and his high average could have been deemed 'legitimate'. He actually meets the 1000 run min criteria used on some top averages lists, but most go by the 20 innings minimum which he unfortunately fell one short of.
His career was cut short by many things, including first WW2 after making his debut in 1938, then well, personality defects afterwards. An early retirement he later retracted after the '48 tour, various disciplinary charges and once an official verdict of being omitted from playing a test 'on grounds other than cricket ability' after he was literally selected in 1952. The Australian board of control stepped in that time.
His record against England was pretty much immaculate, averaging 70 against them from 9 games. There was the match where both him and Bradman scored 234 each in a massive partnership in the '46/47 home season. And in the 1948 'invincibles' tour he averaged 82 in the tests and 56 in all first class games. He received constant criticism that tour for constantly fielding within 5 yards of the batsmen at point or short leg in a lot of games. Sounds like a bit of an old school troll to me.
Definitely a character and clearly quite a talented player, Barnes is another big what-if story.
Lists featured on: 3/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 7th(1)
In my line of work(aged care) I've occasionally encountered massive cricket fans over the age of 85 - I always love to pick their brains on certain players that they saw when I have the time and recently I was lucky enough to meet an old Irish man of ~88 who was a total cricket tragic and still had razor sharp wit and memory. He attended Bradman's final test in the '48 ashes(though he apparently missed a day or two due to also being in town for the 1948 London Olympics). After getting some interesting opinions on the cricket ability of some of these players he saw many times in person, I asked him his opinion on Barnes.
His mood completely changed from matter-of-fact to a mix of laughter and disbelief - clearly he was remembering an incident in particular. 'He was a clown!' were his words.
And it seems that is what people most remember about Barnes. The picture I used is from when he was made 12th man for a shield game in the early '50s and tried to have a bit of fun with it. He did the job in a full suit and some of the refreshments he brought out to the players during the drinks break included cigars and a portable radio.
Barne's actual test record is a damn good one. He averaged 63 overall from 13 tests - as an opener 71 from only 10. The man could definitely bat. If he had just played a few more games he could have easily gotten the Headley/Pollock legacy and his high average could have been deemed 'legitimate'. He actually meets the 1000 run min criteria used on some top averages lists, but most go by the 20 innings minimum which he unfortunately fell one short of.
His career was cut short by many things, including first WW2 after making his debut in 1938, then well, personality defects afterwards. An early retirement he later retracted after the '48 tour, various disciplinary charges and once an official verdict of being omitted from playing a test 'on grounds other than cricket ability' after he was literally selected in 1952. The Australian board of control stepped in that time.
His record against England was pretty much immaculate, averaging 70 against them from 9 games. There was the match where both him and Bradman scored 234 each in a massive partnership in the '46/47 home season. And in the 1948 'invincibles' tour he averaged 82 in the tests and 56 in all first class games. He received constant criticism that tour for constantly fielding within 5 yards of the batsmen at point or short leg in a lot of games. Sounds like a bit of an old school troll to me.
Definitely a character and clearly quite a talented player, Barnes is another big what-if story.
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
No, I didn't see a great deal of him batting though I watched highlights and heard commentators comparing him to the best. I remember his twin tons against Australia in '74 (at Christchurch) but the Oz attack wasn't anything remarkable.
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
Barnes, along with Keith Miller, didn't take the game seriously enough for the likes of Bradman and the ACB. After the horrors of WWII they wanted to provide fun and entertainment rather than a win-at-all cost approach. There was also the whole Catholic v Freemason undercurrent as well.
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
I don't think that will be an issue these days with how much they're getting paid
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Equal #22: Saeed Anwar (20 points)
Lists featured on: 3/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 8th(1)
More known for his ODI exploits, Saeed Anwar had a fine test career as well. He averaged 45 over a career spanning mainly across the decade I keep holding up as the hardest one to bat in, the '90s. He did benefit from playing a lot against easier bowlers, averaging over 50 against India, Sri Lanka and New Zealand and under 25 against SA and West Indies. However against Australia he performed remarkably well, like quite a few Pakistan batsmen of that era(Ijaz, Saleem Malik). Against arguably the best bowling side of the era he averaged 59 from 8 tests with 3 centuries. So it can't be claimed he couldn't cut it against the best.
His home and away average were both 45 so in this way his career also looks quite well rounded.
Anwar's stroke play included some awesome looking offside shots. He played countless square drives and backfoot punches during a century he got at the Gabba in late '99, which ended up being one of his last great test knocks. This actually was his 3rd century in successive tests against Australia, having scored one in each of the first 2 tests of the 1998 series(but he missed the final test in this complete runfest of a series where Tubby got his 334*).
He also got back-to-back tons in the final super 6 game and semi-final of Pakistan's '99 WC campaign, to go with the highest ever ODI score at the time of 194 in 1997. So for this little period at the end of the decade it seems he had a good case for being considered the best opening batsman in the world.
He was only 33 when he played his last test in '01 and his 55 test career actually seems quite short for the era in which he played. At first I put this down to Pakistan not playing a lot back then but Inzy and others racked up a ton of games. So it seems it was more his own test career that was deceptively brief. He debuted in 1990 but didn't play his next test til 1994.
Lists featured on: 3/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 8th(1)
More known for his ODI exploits, Saeed Anwar had a fine test career as well. He averaged 45 over a career spanning mainly across the decade I keep holding up as the hardest one to bat in, the '90s. He did benefit from playing a lot against easier bowlers, averaging over 50 against India, Sri Lanka and New Zealand and under 25 against SA and West Indies. However against Australia he performed remarkably well, like quite a few Pakistan batsmen of that era(Ijaz, Saleem Malik). Against arguably the best bowling side of the era he averaged 59 from 8 tests with 3 centuries. So it can't be claimed he couldn't cut it against the best.
His home and away average were both 45 so in this way his career also looks quite well rounded.
Anwar's stroke play included some awesome looking offside shots. He played countless square drives and backfoot punches during a century he got at the Gabba in late '99, which ended up being one of his last great test knocks. This actually was his 3rd century in successive tests against Australia, having scored one in each of the first 2 tests of the 1998 series(but he missed the final test in this complete runfest of a series where Tubby got his 334*).
He also got back-to-back tons in the final super 6 game and semi-final of Pakistan's '99 WC campaign, to go with the highest ever ODI score at the time of 194 in 1997. So for this little period at the end of the decade it seems he had a good case for being considered the best opening batsman in the world.
He was only 33 when he played his last test in '01 and his 55 test career actually seems quite short for the era in which he played. At first I put this down to Pakistan not playing a lot back then but Inzy and others racked up a ton of games. So it seems it was more his own test career that was deceptively brief. He debuted in 1990 but didn't play his next test til 1994.
Last edited:
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
There's a quote somewhere (I cant find it online) about the 1948 Ashes. Bradman wanted to go thru the series undefeated, and early in the piece both he and Barnes sat out a match, or were injured, or something. Anyway, Australia were bowled out cheaply, and nearly lost. Bradman said afterwards something to the effect of "well, from here either Sid or myself have to play in every game".#24: Sid Barnes (19 points)
Lists featured on: 3/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 7th(1)
In my line of work(aged care) I've occasionally encountered massive cricket fans over the age of 85 - I always love to pick their brains on certain players that they saw when I have the time and recently I was lucky enough to meet an old Irish man of ~88 who was a total cricket tragic and still had razor sharp wit and memory. He attended Bradman's final test in the '48 ashes(though he apparently missed a day or two due to also being in town for the 1948 London Olympics). After getting some interesting opinions on the cricket ability of some of these players he saw many times in person, I asked him his opinion on Barnes.
His mood completely changed from matter-of-fact to a mix of laughter and disbelief - clearly he was remembering an incident in particular. 'He was a clown!' were his words.
And it seems that is what people most remember about Barnes. The picture I used is from when he was made 12th man for a shield game in the early '50s and tried to have a bit of fun with it. He did the job in a full suit and some of the refreshments he brought out to the players during the drinks break included cigars and a portable radio.
Barne's actual test record is a damn good one. He averaged 63 overall from 13 tests - as an opener 71 from only 10. The man could definitely bat. If he had just played a few more games he could have easily gotten the Headley/Pollock legacy and his high average could have been deemed 'legitimate'. He actually meets the 1000 run min criteria used on some top averages lists, but most go by the 20 innings minimum which he unfortunately fell one short of.
His career was cut short by many things, including first WW2 after making his debut in 1938, then well, personality defects afterwards. An early retirement he later retracted after the '48 tour, various disciplinary charges and once an official verdict of being omitted from playing a test 'on grounds other than cricket ability' after he was literally selected in 1952. The Australian board of control stepped in that time.
His record against England was pretty much immaculate, averaging 70 against them from 9 games. There was the match where both him and Bradman scored 234 each in a massive partnership in the '46/47 home season. And in the 1948 'invincibles' tour he averaged 82 in the tests and 56 in all first class games. He received constant criticism that tour for constantly fielding within 5 yards of the batsmen at point or short leg in a lot of games. Sounds like a bit of an old school troll to me.
Definitely a character and clearly quite a talented player, Barnes is another big what-if story.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That's quite the feather in your cap if you're Sid Barnes.
Not sure about the "win-at-all-cost" comment: "We could have played on, but it was a Test match and we just had to win. I realised something drastic had to be done or three wickets might be lost. So I appealed after every second ball. I complained of the people moving about, the light, and, in fact, anything, in an effort to get the appeal upheld" is a quote from Barnes on Wiki.
Also: "Barnes needed a score to rehabilitate himself in the eyes of the Test Selectors and he spent all Saturday over 131 runs while 20,000 impatient spectators barracked loudly. His dismissal on the third day evoked cheers all round the ground."
Last edited:
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Barne's wiki story is a trip. So interesting. It seems he actually had quite a lot of respect for Bradman here:
He asked me how I liked it. I said it suited me. 'You batted very well in this game,' he said, 'but not quite as an opener. You were looking for runs all the time. I think what you want to watch as an opener is not getting out ... What is needed from my openers, and is most important, is patience and plenty of it.' I was completely willing to be guided by anything that Bradman wanted me to do.
but then here it looks like he is taking the piss a bit so it makes me question how deep his respect actually ran:
"Lots of people have asked me whether I deliberately threw my wicket away at 234. The answer is yes." He confirmed to an interviewer many years later that "it wouldn't be right for someone to make more runs than Sir Donald Bradman".
But then there's this right after:
E.W. Swanton wrote that this "could well have been so for he was a man of quixotic mood and temperament"
and now I'm just confused.. but at least I now know what quixotic means! haha
He asked me how I liked it. I said it suited me. 'You batted very well in this game,' he said, 'but not quite as an opener. You were looking for runs all the time. I think what you want to watch as an opener is not getting out ... What is needed from my openers, and is most important, is patience and plenty of it.' I was completely willing to be guided by anything that Bradman wanted me to do.
but then here it looks like he is taking the piss a bit so it makes me question how deep his respect actually ran:
"Lots of people have asked me whether I deliberately threw my wicket away at 234. The answer is yes." He confirmed to an interviewer many years later that "it wouldn't be right for someone to make more runs than Sir Donald Bradman".
But then there's this right after:
E.W. Swanton wrote that this "could well have been so for he was a man of quixotic mood and temperament"
and now I'm just confused.. but at least I now know what quixotic means! haha
Last edited:
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
Yeh, from what I know Barnes had no particular issue with Bradman.
Most of the '48 Australians had plenty of respect for the Don. The one exception may have been Miller, but I think that was more a life philosophy thing rather than them disliking each other. These guys post war were probably suffering what'd now be called PTSD etc. I think part of Miller's thing is he just wanted to enjoy life and play cricket with guys he considered mates (including Compton and other Englishmen). Bradman had a bigger desire to win at all costs.
It was more the pre-war guys (OReilly, Fingelton) who seemed to have an issue with Bradman, and from what I know of that it seems pretty petty tbh. Bradman was a quirky guy, for sure, but he seemed pretty decent overall.
Most of the '48 Australians had plenty of respect for the Don. The one exception may have been Miller, but I think that was more a life philosophy thing rather than them disliking each other. These guys post war were probably suffering what'd now be called PTSD etc. I think part of Miller's thing is he just wanted to enjoy life and play cricket with guys he considered mates (including Compton and other Englishmen). Bradman had a bigger desire to win at all costs.
It was more the pre-war guys (OReilly, Fingelton) who seemed to have an issue with Bradman, and from what I know of that it seems pretty petty tbh. Bradman was a quirky guy, for sure, but he seemed pretty decent overall.
