CW decides the 32 best test* opening batsmen of all time - The countdown thread!

[TheJediBrah]

yep, he was Hanif

You had an extra 'f' in a few places. Not taking a dig, enjoying the rightups.

*write-ups

Just while we're correcting each other's spelling

 

[GoodAreasShane]

He used to get very close to the stumps. In the 1975 World Cup Final he hooked a 6 but stood on his wicket in the process.

So he's basically Peter Handscomb except good then


ITSTL

 

[Starfighter]

and somehow didn't lose a 6 day match

That's six five hour days, the same length was used in Australia then, compared to England using five six hour days. They were both 30 hours.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

I think it was Dacca back then.

Much better spelling, IMO

That match was played at the Bangabandhu National Stadium.

That was the ground with this pitch, wasn't it?

 

[mr_mister]

Ah yeah I was actually hoping someone would explain why they were playing 6 day match as I had no idea. Thanks Andrew and Starfighter

 

[mr_mister]

#21: Desmond Haynes (22 points)

Lists featured on: 4/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 6th (1)

Desmond Haynes, who once held the record for most ever ODI centuries, was equally as successful in tests(at first glance) but slightly overshadowed by his more brutal opening partner, Gordon Greenidge. Haynes partnered up with Greenidge in the late 70s after Fredericks departed and the two were staples at the top of the order during one of the most dominant eras any cricket team has ever produced.

Haynes record, though full of solid performances against all the nations he played against is not perfect. He actually averaged 56 at home compared to only 33 away. Truly a force across all the Caribbean pitches, he scored 10 of his 18 centuries there despite playing a good chunk more of his test cricket away. He was a little toothless in some areas of the world. He averaged only 24 in Asia from 21 matches so its fair to say he was far more comfortable against high quality pace than spin, which makes a lot of sense considering the kind of bowling he would have faced domestically.

In England he managed an average of 42 from 19 matches and in Australia this shot down to 31 from 21 matches - but it should be said in both these nations he produced similar returns when it came to milestones. 2 tons and 6 fifties in Australia and 2 tons and 7 fifties in England. So he still contributed runs in Australia, he just didn't go quite as big when he did.

I don't want to criticise his record too much because he was a beast at home regardless of the opposition bowlers, but personally I rate Fredericks higher.

 

[stephen]

I do think that Greenidge and Haynes are a bit overrated at test level. They didn't face the West Indian attack and still only managed to average in the low 40s. They never faced any ATG spin attacks either (which is neither here nor there, but it means we can't say they were incredible against spin like we can with Sehwag).

The ATG fast bowlers they faced then were Imran, Lillee and Hadlee. Greenidge at least had no problem against New Zealand (despite Hadlee getting him a number of times). His record against Pakistan and Imran isn't great. He made all his runs against Australia after Lillee retired. And Greenidge was the better of the two.

I'm not saying they're not greats but I did feel that unlike Hayden/Langer, Greenidge/Haynes is perhaps overrated based on their records.

 

[mr_mister]

#20: Conrad Hunte (29 points)

Lists featured on: 6/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 6th (1)

I thought this was a terrific color photo, apologies about the size but couldn't pass it up. I assume it came at the back end of Hunte's career as he retired in '67. But man it's a good one.

I'll start with this quote about Hunte, which sums up well as a person I think:

As West Indies vice-captain for eight years, Hunte was a loyal lieutenant, first to Frank Worrell, for whom he held a hallowed regard, then, on Worrell's retirement, to Sobers. He admitted subsequently that he was so gravely hurt to have been passed over for the leadership in favour of Sobers, reportedly on Worrell's advice, that he considered quitting. True to his Christian values, he soon dismissed his disappointment and remained a stabilising influence to the tactically more impetuous new captain.

As a batsman Hunte was at initially an attacking player, capable of playing shots to all parts. But he largely suppressed that side of his batting in tests becoming more of a 'sheet-anchor' so his other teammates could play their shots. He didn't get to make his test debut til he was 26 after 8 seasons of domestic cricket where he was considered by many to be the best opening prospect in the Caribbean. But he made an immediate splash in the test arena, hitting 3 centuries in his first 4 matches in 1958. It was quite an awesome debut series for him which came against Pakistan and netted him over 600 runs. 142 in his debut knock followed by a massive 260 a couple of games later. This 260 came in a nearly 450 run second wicket stand with Gary Sobers, who went on to get 365, the highest test score ever at the time. This was Sobers first test ton and it took him around 15 tests to get it - so it's possibly a little unfair that it overshadows Hunte's 260 by the amount it does in people's memories. Hunte scored another ton the next match after that but then struggled after while Sobers of course went on to do amazing things.

Hunte struggles came to in end in 1963, when first in an away series in England he scored 478 runs @ 58(with a 485 ball 182 in the opening innings of the series to really get his team off onto the front foot). This greatly assisted his side in winning that series. Then in his next series, a couple of years later in 1965 he produced quite a fascinating home performance against a touring Australian side. He scored 550 runs in 5 tests @ 60 but didn't manage a single century. However consistent, useful contributions(6 fifties in 10 innings) was no doubt a key factor in his side winning that test series too. He kept wearing the shine off that new ball and it must have been frustrating as hell to bowl against. I would actually guess it's one of the most productive batting series ever where a player didn't ton up.

Hunte was a terrific player and chronologically the first in a line of 4 very famous West Indian opening batsman that appeared not too far apart from each other. And out of those 4, he ranks in 2nd on this list only behind Greenidge.

 

[Starfighter]

I do think that Greenidge and Haynes are a bit overrated at test level. They didn't face the West Indian attack and still only managed to average in the low 40s. They never faced any ATG spin attacks either (which is neither here nor there, but it means we can't say they were incredible against spin like we can with Sehwag).

The ATG fast bowlers they faced then were Imran, Lillee and Hadlee. Greenidge at least had no problem against New Zealand (despite Hadlee getting him a number of times). His record against Pakistan and Imran isn't great. He made all his runs against Australia after Lillee retired. And Greenidge was the better of the two.

I'm not saying they're not greats but I did feel that unlike Hayden/Langer, Greenidge/Haynes is perhaps overrated based on their records.

I very much agree. I think some people give them extra props for the eighties perhaps being a difficult era, ignoring the fact that they weren't facing the main thing that made it so difficult. It might be that their averages reflect their ability pretty well.

 

[mr_mister]

Greenidge got a 90 and century in his debut test in India against Venkat, Chandra and Prasanna which is pretty cool. I feel like his record has far more awesome moments on it than Haynes does. 3 consecutive tons in the 'make them grovel' series too

 

[Line and Length]

I don't want to criticise his record too much because he was a beast at home regardless of the opposition bowlers, but personally I rate Fredericks higher.

I tend to agree ... and Fredericks was much better to watch.

 

[h_hurricane]

*write-ups

Just while we're correcting each other's spelling

hehe, yes. I spend so much time reading posts but never proof read my own.

 

[h_hurricane]

That was the ground with this pitch, wasn't it?

Yep, looks like it.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I remember reading that Haynes really struggled in Australia in 1979 when the Windies crushed the Ozzies. However, he was the only West Indian batsman prepared to dig in and apply himself in the 1 wicket loss in the subsequent 1st test in NZ. He scored 55 off 208 balls (team score 140) and 105 off 323 (team score 212). There's a great book called "The Howarth Years" (featuring important NZ test wins under Geoff Howarth) which is very complimentary of Haynes. The internet tells me he also scored a century in the 2nd test.

 

[bagapath]

for about 70 tests or so greenidge averaged 50. and it was as a big a deal as averaging 60 now. 1974 to 1985 greenidge was gold. i did catch a bit of him in 1983, before i could regularly watch tv from 1984/85 onwards. he was devastating. not taking anything away from hayden and langer. they were terrific. and these Barbadians were certainly as good as them.

 

[honestbharani]

I would say they were easily better. I actually had Taylor-Slater above Hayden-Langer or at least equal to them.

 

[trundler]

Glenn Turner still better than anyone else posted so far

 

[stephen]

for about 70 tests or so greenidge averaged 50. and it was as a big a deal as averaging 60 now. 1974 to 1985 greenidge was gold. i did catch a bit of him in 1983, before i could regularly watch tv from 1984/85 onwards. he was devastating. not taking anything away from hayden and langer. they were terrific. and these Barbadians were certainly as good as them.

Certainly they are both greats. As I said though, I think Greenidge and Haynes are a bit overrated, mostly because they never faced the West Indian attack and nor did they face any great spinners and yet both only averaged in the low 40s for their career.

They seemed greater because there was a dearth of good batsmen in the 80s and the West Indies were so dominant.

And I know they were different eras, but Hayden averaged 58 over 81 tests in the middle of his career, which even adjusting for era is monstrously high. Yet all people talk about is that Hayden was "weak against pace". Well Greenidge and Haynes didn't exactly set the house on fire against Lillee or Imran.

 

[stephen]

I would say they were easily better. I actually had Taylor-Slater above Hayden-Langer or at least equal to them.

I'm not sure why. None of their contemporaries believed that to be the case. You have to make ridiculous era adjustments to their figures to make them look better.

Taylor as a batsman was very good for short periods. He burst onto the scene as a youngster and made a name for himself. After that great start he had some moments of greatness but was never as consistent as Hayden or Langer.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm not sure why. None of their contemporaries believed that to be the case. You have to make ridiculous era adjustments to their figures to make them look better.

Taylor as a batsman was very good for short periods. He burst onto the scene as a youngster and made a name for himself. After that great start he had some moments of greatness but was never as consistent as Hayden or Langer.

A big part of Hayden and Langer being so underrated is unconscious bias against them IMO. There's no reason to really think they had it any easier in terms of conditions or opposition than Greenidge and Haynes.