Curtly Ambrose vs Dale Steyn

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea I do find it hard to believe Ambrose averaged 20.99 without being great on flat pitches

 

[BazBall21]

So we all agree then that Walsh is underrated seeing that he performed wonders in Asia and especially flat wickets. Ditto Michael Holding seeing what he did to India in '83 and England on the oval in 1976. They're both more proven on flat wickets than Curtly, I guess they must be better. Bs.

Curtly has his receipts on flat wickets, more importantly he was great vs the best of his time. I'll see your Steyn's great record in Asia but average record in Eng/Australia and raise you a good to average record in Asia (over fewer tests) and an outstanding record in England and Australia. It's close; steyn is in no league or whatever above Curtly if at all.

I voted for Ambrose and consider him the touring bowler in Australia. He is arguably the bowler in Australian conditions full stop.

 

[kyear2]

Ambrose has been overrated on this forum too long. We have to knock him down a peg. Same as we did with Kallis the all-rounder.



I meant to say Lillee was limited in his performances abroad, not skills.

Ambrose was limited in his skillset though, and once his pace left him after his should injury, he just had bounce and accuracy. No cutters, swing, slower balls, etc.

The bad faith posting wouldn't be so bad if the agenda wasn't as apparent.

Think you've hit a new low with these two tbh. But let's see who's next

 

[Slifer]

Time and time again I've pointed out to any of trolls who would listen that the wickets in the WI aren't all pace friendly. The ARG is easily the flatest wicket in the world with Bourda right behind.

For example, WI played SL at home in 1996 I believe and got wrecked at the ARG by Murali. Wi very well should have lost that test but Ambrose ran through SL I believe in the 1st innings and WI eventually won that test. People will later look at the scorecard and the low scores and assume the wicket was bowler friendly. It wasn't. It was as flat as it always has been Curtly was just in the zone that day.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I voted for Ambrose and consider him the touring bowler in Australia. He is arguably the bowler in Australian conditions full stop.

It’s probably between Ambrose and Hadlee I think

 

[kyear2]

And please, I'm not stating that Ambrose is better than Steyn, I think it's really close and honestly a matter of preference and I go for Steyn. Fourth and fifth for me

 

[BazBall21]

Time and time again I've pointed out to any of trolls who would listen that the wickets in the WI aren't all pace friendly. The ARG is easily the flatest wicket in the world with Bourda right behind.

For example, WI played SL at home in 1996 I believe and got wrecked at the ARG by Murali. Wi very well should have lost that test but Ambrose ran through SL I believe in the 1st innings and WI eventually won that test. People will later look at the scorecard and the low scores and assume the wicket was bowler friendly. It wasn't. It was as flat as it always has been Curtly was just in the zone that day.

Incredible that he was so successful in Antigua yet Jamaica had a hoodoo for him.

 

[BazBall21]

Ambrose really loved Trini

 

[Slifer]

Ambrose has been overrated on this forum too long. We have to knock him down a peg. Same as we did with Kallis the all-rounder.



I meant to say Lillee was limited in his performances abroad, not skills.

Ambrose was limited in his skillset though, and once his pace left him after his should injury, he just had bounce and accuracy. No cutters, swing, slower balls, etc.

I suggest you get a new hobby because nothing you say and no amount of troll-polls is going to change the fact that most agree sir Curtly is easily in the top 10 of all time, arguably top 5.

Then you say crap like Curtly had no cutters or slower balls, when Mike Atherton literally was lbw to a first ball off cutter when WI bowled out England for 46 in 1994, or when Ian Healy got bowled by a slower ball in the wsc of 92-93. Etc.

 

[Slifer]

Ambrose really loved Trini

Uneven bounce generally.

 

[BazBall21]

Uneven bounce generally.

Very difficult in the 4th innings.

 

[Slifer]

And please, I'm not stating that Ambrose is better than Steyn, I think it's really close and honestly a matter of preference and I go for Steyn. Fourth and fifth for me

Which is fair and mature. But some just have to go off on their little tangent (crusade) talking bout "we" need to pull Ambrose down a few pegs because he's overrated. Nobody on this forum( very few) thinks Ambrose is the goat. We all agree that he's definitely top ten and possibly top 5. How the hell is that overating him.

 

[subshakerz]

So we all agree then that Walsh is underrated seeing that he performed wonders in Asia and especially flat wickets. Ditto Michael Holding seeing what he did to India in '83 and England on the oval in 1976. They're both more proven on flat wickets than Curtly, I guess they must be better. Bs.

Strawman. We are comparing him to other top tier ATGs.

Curtly has his receipts on flat wickets, more importantly he was great vs the best of his time.

Are they career representative because he generally was neutralised on such wickets to me.

Time and time again I've pointed out to any of trolls who would listen that the wickets in the WI aren't all pace friendly. The ARG is easily the flatest wicket in the world with Bourda right behind.

Yet Ambrose takes less than 4 wickets a tests at home at an SR of nearly 56. Why? No other ATG is like that. Because he had a tendency to go missing entire series at a time, especially later in his career. Clearly not the force of nature you are pretending he is.

I suggest you get a new hobby because nothing you say and no amount of troll-polls is going to change the fact that most agree sir Curtly is easily in the top 10 of all time, arguably top 5.

Yes Ambrose is top ten, I just suggest he be pushed up around 8/9/10. No big deal. Stop hyper ventilating.

 

[subshakerz]

The bad faith posting wouldn't be so bad if the agenda wasn't as apparent.

Think you've you've hit a low low with these two tbh. But let's see who's next

No I am doing CW a favor. We need to defy rigid orthodoxy represented by a few posters here who are uncomfy with open facts, like Ambrose lack of penetration or Kallis' lack of bowling load, and just regurgitate conventional wisdom.

It will take time but we will win.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

So we all agree then that Walsh is underrated seeing that he performed wonders in Asia and especially flat wickets. Ditto Michael Holding seeing what he did to India in '83 and England on the oval in 1976. They're both more proven on flat wickets than Curtly, I guess they must be better. Bs.

Curtly has his receipts on flat wickets, more importantly he was great vs the best of his time. I'll see your Steyn's great record in Asia but average record in Eng/Australia and raise you a good to average record in Asia (over fewer tests) and an outstanding record in England and Australia. It's close; steyn is in no league or whatever above Curtly if at all.

Close agreed. But Steyn’s record in Aus is outstanding as well( although a tier below Ambrose/Hadlee there), and he’s pretty good in Eng(outperformed Broad/Anderson massively by an average perspective and has a great WPM and SR there). In Aus, Steyn surpassed all the bowlers of his generation to Aus(average wise as well, if one sees see the underlying context) and addition has a great WPM abd SR, plus some of the important spells in SA history.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

There is no objective measure for Steyn being in the same class as the top 3 as to merit opening this attack, but fits the narrative.

There are around 8-10 ish quick who I have around similar level. Not much difference between them imo.

 

[Kirkut]

Ambrose. That discomforting bounce coupled with a perfect yorker made him impossible to handle at prime.

 

[kyear2]

No I am doing CW a favor. We need to defy rigid orthodoxy represented by a few posters here who are uncomfy with open facts, like Ambrose lack of penetration or Kallis' lack of bowling load, and just regurgitate conventional wisdom.

It will take time but we will win.

Who the **** are "we" exactly?

 

[subshakerz]

Who the **** are "we" exactly?

Like-minded contrarians here.

 

[Slifer]

Who the **** are "we" exactly?

Either someone hacked his account or Subz has evolved (like a pokemon) into a troll. In which case, I rather not engage. Imagine if we start polls about who was the bigger ball tamperer between Imran and insert player. But most of us have enough common sense to know Imran was better than that.....