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Cricketweb decides the greatest bowler ever in a 64 player bracket. Contest thread.

Slifer

International Captain
By "results" and "effective" do you just mean the fact that Marshall had a better average and SR than Warne? Because if you do, it reveals a lot about the fact that you don't really grasp how important spinners are in a cricket team and how they will very rarely have a better avg and SR than quicks but that's ok because they play a different role.
No and u don't grasp the fact that it's my opinion and just that. A bowlers job is to take Wickets, take em cheaply and if they happen to be effective worldwide then more power to em. Top pace men like MM, Mcgrath, Imran etc were better than their spin counterparts.

Ps it's pretty clear that Murali (for example) only took that many Wickets per match, because he was the only gun bowler on his team. Warne and Marshall essentially had identical wpm
 

viriya

International Captain
Ps it's pretty clear that Murali (for example) only took that many Wickets per match, because he was the only gun bowler on his team. Warne and Marshall essentially had identical wpm
This explanation ignores the fact that Murali had a better SR than warne while getting 1.5 wkts/mat at a better average. No doubt it is a factor, but it clearly wasn't the whole story. The other angle to consider is that having a better supporting cast helps your average - since the captain is not forced to overbowl you when you are having a bad day because he has no other option.

Bowlers like Marshall, McGrath and warne all had great supporting casts that negatively affects their wpm but positively affects their average and SR so it evens things out to a certain extent.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
This explanation ignores the fact that Murali had a better SR than warne while getting 1.5 wkts/mat at a better average. No doubt it is a factor, but it clearly wasn't the whole story. The other angle to consider is that having a better supporting cast helps your average - since the captain is not forced to overbowl you when you are having a bad day because he has no other option.

Bowlers like Marshall, McGrath and warne all had great supporting casts that negatively affects their wpm but positively affects their average and SR so it evens things out to a certain extent.
The real lone wolf comparison for Murali comes with Richard Hadlee. Who would you choose?
 
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Slifer

International Captain
This explanation ignores the fact that Murali had a better SR than warne while getting 1.5 wkts/mat at a better average. No doubt it is a factor, but it clearly wasn't the whole story. The other angle to consider is that having a better supporting cast helps your average - since the captain is not forced to overbowl you when you are having a bad day because he has no other option.

Bowlers like Marshall, McGrath and warne all had great supporting casts that negatively affects their wpm but positively affects their average and SR so it evens things out to a certain extent.
Tbh, I don't think we shouldve been comparing spinners and pace men in first place. But to the point u raised about
effectiveness in MM vs Murali, I don't think even u can argue against the fact that MM was great everywhere, Murali unfortunately was not.
 

viriya

International Captain
The only places where Murali wasn't great with a decent sample size was india - his record there is skewed heavily by a terrible first series he had when he had just started off. His Aus record has the same issue + the fact that he only played a few matches there during his career.

In general I'm not a fan of nit-picking a player's record in different countries because it inevitably runs into sample size issues, but I agree that Marshall has a more consistent record.

I would argue that Murali dominated more ovrrall.
 

viriya

International Captain
The real lone wolf comparison for Murali comes with Richard Hadlee. Who would you choose?
Hadlee and Murali is an interesting comparison because the lack of a supporting cast applies to both of them.

If you compare hadlee and McGrath, they have similar average/SR but hadlee got 10% more wpm.

IMO the 10% more wpm can be explained by the lack of a supporting cast, but since he still had similar average + SR I rate hadlee over McGrath.

Murali on the other hand took 6 wpm at better avg/SR than warne who had 4.6 wpm. This is a 30% difference! Even adjusting for the fact that he played more vs ban + zim this makes me pick him going by a simple numbers look.

If you dig a little deeper and rate each performance based on multiple factors this gap is maintained from what I've considered.
 

Slifer

International Captain
Not sure how a 26 average away is average. He was dominant in England more than warne was for example.
Murali was very good away. You said Murali was dominant and away he simply wasn't Btw he averages 27 away
 

Slifer

International Captain
Yes he was. Also great in nzl, pak, rsa, and wi. Ok in Zim and no comment on ind or Oz or ban. No doubt Murali is in the top 5 greatest ever spinners, I just don't think that as a bowler he is better than MM. There aren't stats or any arguments I've seen that have proven otherwise.
 
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Tom Halsey

International Coach
He was amazing everywhere except India and Aus. It's a weak argument.
Bowlers (and batsmen for that matter) have been criticised by some for having one blot on their CVs before, let alone two. Whilst I tend to disregard players having poor records in individual countries (small sample size etc), I do think an away average of 27.8 over 54 matches is enough to be significant, and we are comparing ATGs here. No-one is saying Murali isn't an ATG.

Ambrose and Marshall would be my votes.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
an abundance of Warne/Marshall votes has left us with this for a final

if Murali can't beat Marshall I dunno how Warne is meant to.

anyhow


THE FINAL

Shane Warne vs Malcolm Marshall
 

Slifer

International Captain
As mentioned before, was never a fan of comparing fast bowlers and spinners. Murali and Warne are both arguably greater bowlers than MM by sheer weight of numbers, uniqueness and charisma (warne)/controversy (Murali). But purely on the bowlers job to take Wickets, take em cheaply, take them quickly and take Wickets worldwide, Malcolm Marshall gets my vote.
 

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