Chris Cairns' Perjury Trial

[AndyZaltzHair]

Yeah McCullum is not going to get in trouble now because ACSU people and to large extent ICC already knew all these if I am not mistaken. It's just that McCullum told the court about these incidents now and from that we got to know via media

 

[straw man]

Fairly so-so article though with an interesting snippet half-way down. Chris Cairns trial: Daniel Vettori tells court of Chris Cairns' diamond delay | Stuff.co.nz

New Zealand cricket selectors were aware of match-fixing rumours swirling around pace bowler Daryl Tuffey, a team-mate of Cairns at Chandigarh in the 2008 Indian Cricket League (ICL), where outed match-fixer Lou Vincent opened the batting.

They selected Tuffey anyway, Vettori told the court..

Vettori said rumours were "coming back" to New Zealand about the Chandigarh trio.

But Pownall asked how it was that the New Zealand selectors still picked Tuffey, after 2008. He had been selected in 2009-2011.

"We couldn't not select him on the basis of rumours," Vettori told the court.

Tuffey's name had been discussed in relation to the rumours, by selectors - Vettori, Andy Moles, Glenn Turner and Mark Greatbatch - he said.

There were no notes, and those discussions had been more informal one-on-one between individual selectors, Vettori told the court.

Pressed, he said he was sure his memory was correct.

"I didn't make a mistake about that," he said.

 

[SteveNZ]

Interesting one, for sure. If it had've been a less established name or someone that didn't fit pretty easily into the senior player clique, you'd reckon a player surrounded by the innuendo and rumour of match-fixing wouldn't have gone near the national side.

It make Tuffey playing from 2009 to 2011 and Cairns being in the comm box really, really bizarre almost. You can say you can't not select someone on rumour but I'm fairly certain messers Vettori and co would've been happy to take the word of Baz after the meeting in Worcester in 2008.

I'm not saying they didn't do it, just that there doesn't seem to be a level of ostracising that you'd expect

 

[jcas0167]

Interesting one, for sure. If it had've been a less established name or someone that didn't fit pretty easily into the senior player clique, you'd reckon a player surrounded by the innuendo and rumour of match-fixing wouldn't have gone near the national side.

It make Tuffey playing from 2009 to 2011 and Cairns being in the comm box really, really bizarre almost. You can say you can't not select someone on rumour but I'm fairly certain messers Vettori and co would've been happy to take the word of Baz after the meeting in Worcester in 2008.

I'm not saying they didn't do it, just that there doesn't seem to be a level of ostracising that you'd expect

I wonder if it played a part in Vincent not being selected to face Australia in 2010, where instead they went with Peter Ingram. Ingram had outstanding domestic form, but Vincent was playing pretty well too and had enjoyed previous success against Australia.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I don't blame McCullum for keeping it quiet. I mean who would tell on their childhood hero.

 

[aussie]

Chris Cairns reaction to victory 'unusual' - Chris Harris | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Daemon]

Still can't get my head wrapped around the absurdity of the jury system.

 

[SteveNZ]

Still can't get my head wrapped around the absurdity of the jury system.

The issue being as well that this jury will, by and large, have zero idea about cricket. What's likely to register more strongly with them, a casual run out/cheap dismissal or the fact that the credibility of the witnesses is being continually questioned as either being hearsay or without irrefutable proof?

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Need fredfertang there ASAP

 

[fredfertang]

Need fredfertang there ASAP

In the entirety of my professional career I've never found the subject matter of a client's case so grim that I haven't felt able to represent them to the best of my ability - not sure I could act for Cairns though - always liked him as a player, and at the end of the day if he's guilty of match or spot fixing in the ICL then I could get over that, but if I came to believe he'd sullied any sort of 'proper' cricket, least of all the Holy Grail of the international game, the professional considerations would go out of the window - I'd want to hang him out to dry.

This is slightly worrying in some ways - if he were any sort of alleged *** offender or distraction burglar I'd have no trouble with the usual 'it's someone else's job to judge him and everyone is entitled to put forward their defence' position that I've trotted out all my life when you get asked that most annoying of all questions; 'How can you act for someone you believe is guilty?' but mess around with the integrity of a game and I suddenly get scruples - maybe it's time to retire?

 

[NZTailender]

I don't believe Cairns would've fixed an international match, but I have no trouble believing he'd have fixed matches in an unsanctioned league well after he's retired from the international circuit.

 

[Pratters]

In the entirety of my professional career I've never found the subject matter of a client's case so grim that I haven't felt able to represent them to the best of my ability - not sure I could act for Cairns though - always liked him as a player, and at the end of the day if he's guilty of match or spot fixing in the ICL then I could get over that, but if I came to believe he'd sullied any sort of 'proper' cricket, least of all the Holy Grail of the international game, the professional considerations would go out of the window - I'd want to hang him out to dry.

This is slightly worrying in some ways - if he were any sort of alleged *** offender or distraction burglar I'd have no trouble with the usual 'it's someone else's job to judge him and everyone is entitled to put forward their defence' position that I've trotted out all my life when you get asked that most annoying of all questions; 'How can you act for someone you believe is guilty?' but mess around with the integrity of a game and I suddenly get scruples - maybe it's time to retire?

This is very interesting. It is too close to your heart. For instance, if a close blood relative you love has committed a crime and the person against whom the crime is committed comes asking for you to defend him, you wouldn't be able to do it either.

 

[aussie]

I don't believe Cairns would've fixed an international match, but I have no trouble believing he'd have fixed matches in an unsanctioned league well after he's retired from the international circuit.

Yea, of course this is no excuse to Cairns if it is indeed proven he fixed ICL games - but it plays into the broader argument that if at the time ICC was stronger governing body & had control of the T20 cricket leagues explosion that occurred after India won the 2007 W-Cup, the ICL simply would never have existed.

 

[fredfertang]

Yea, of course this is no excuse to Cairns if it is indeed proven he fixed ICL games - but it plays into the broader argument that if at the time ICC was stronger governing body & had control of the T20 cricket leagues explosion that occurred after India won the 2007 W-Cup, the ICL simply would never have existed.

That's a decent point - if one result of this trial is that it makes it more likely that nothing like the ICL will happen again then some good will have come out of the tawdry episode

 

[Hurricane]

Chris Cairns reaction to victory 'unusual' - Chris Harris | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

crap testimony. Harris not happy with the expression on Cairns' face after a victory.

I sometimes look reserved myself.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah there's pretty much no proper evidence post McCullum's testimony.

 

[Skyliner]

"He's guilty, Cairnsy's guilty". And the defence says that was something to do with Cairns marriage break-up.
The syntax is all wrong. It should've been "He feels guilty, Cairnsy feels very guilty".
Who repays $15,000 in actual folding cash, as in a bag of 20 pound notes?? It's almost exactly like that person would not want the transaction traced. Quite bizarre.
Player X is also remembered by Andre Adams as saying you'd never get caught etc, which sounds similar to what he allegedly said to Lou's ex. It all sounds pretty devious.
I just see the more recent evidence as corroborating and supporting the evidence previously given. A F-H indeed, and a bombastic one at that; the evidence involving him is of the loose lips sink ships variety.
What a pair of charmers the great friends are.

 

[Skyliner]

If Cairns approached McCullum in India and England, he wouldn't have been approaching him to fix games in the ICL, surely.
Ergo he was not just allegedly contemplating fixing in an unsanctioned league.

 

[G.I.Joe]

If Cairns approached McCullum in India and England, he wouldn't have been approaching him to fix games in the ICL, surely.
Ergo he was not just allegedly contemplating fixing in an unsanctioned league.

Exactly. All this fluff about the unsanctioned nature of cricket leagues being the root cause for match-fixing is baseless in light of the approach made to McCullum.

 

[social]

That's a decent point - if one result of this trial is that it makes it more likely that nothing like the ICL will happen again then some good will have come out of the tawdry episode

IIRC, the ICL was a legitimate competitor to the IPL (might even have preceded it) at the time and bad blood between Cairns and Modi literally stemmed from corporate rivalries (btw, let's not forget that the latter is allegedly a dodgy ****er who is living in exile)

In any event, the IPL is still a bastard son of the BCCI and barely tolerated by the ICC to this day so let's not pretend that it is the bastion of good governance