Cheats XI

[Goughy]

Woud you honestly be happy to call, say, Shahid Afridi "Pakistani leg-spinning all-rounder & cheat"?

I actually agree with you. I dont bander the word around much and it is a horrible thing to be called. If you looked at my first post I expected this thread to be closed very quickly.

However, the perameters were set for what a cheat was by a cheats XI being named and I took my lead from that.

In reality (as I do not like the word cheat) I would not call Waqar a cheat despite him ball tampering. However, in the context of the thread it is appropiate

 

[Xuhaib]

Isolating every series and saying you have to be caught in every series is extreme. I love Waqar, but he cheated and did it often. You need to get a bit more realistic.

I drive fast but have only been given 3 tickets in my life. Because I was caught 3 times does that mean Ive only broke the speed limit thrice? or does it mean that Ive been caught before and I am likely to continue to do it and get away with it most of the time?

You cannot be so naive to think that a player (with a history) has only done it the time they have been caught.

The fact he has been caught before proves he cheated and also shows he is likely to have done it previously and again. Same as my driving

I could watch Waqar all day but to deny he cheated is just like putting your head in the sand or covering your ears and shouting "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA"

For me there is a very fine line between ball tampering and reverse swing. Sometimes it is possible that a bowler who is trying to get the reverse swing becomes frustrated due to lack of wickets or lack of swing and may unintentionaly do something that is more ball tampering then reverse swing.

Waqar who was a very fine exponent of reverse swing may have gone through these stages where the ball is not doing to much for him and in his desperation did things with the ball that were bordering at illegality. My point is just to label Waqar phenomenal performances result of ball tampering is unfair to the great man, after all the skill which was called blatent cheating was later given the name "Reverse swing" the same reverse swing which helped england to reclaim Ashes or would you label that ball tampering aswell considering their two great exponents Simon Jones and Andrew Flintoff admitting that Waqar and Wasim being one of their inspirations.

 

[steds]

EDIT- You seem not to be that serious
but just in case
Watching Waqar change the ball condition does not make Stewart a cheat. Same way it does not make any of the Pakistani batsmen cheats who played in the same team. They are not commiting the crime.

Tbf, he never said Waqar was the one doing it.

"When Waqar came to Surrey in 1990, he was the ideal man for reverse swing and we made sure that we had the ball in the ideal condition.
Fingernails were also used to scratch the ball. I was keeping wicket for Surrey at the time and knew all about it."

By mentioning Waqar was the beneficiary and suggesting it was a team thing, he's suggesting Waqar was game, but he's not saying he had any objections himself, either.

 

[steds]

considering their two great exponents Simon Jones and Andrew Flintoff admitting that Waqar and Wasim being one of their inspirations.

What's wrong with that? They were two magnificent bowlers, whether they cheated or not.

 

[FRAZ]

Enough is enough .
Xuhaib's point of view was may be to tell that cheating is a global and a human issue and these are the people who did it . Now I have seen a dumb clown trying to defend a kiwi bowler in a way that "this was the only way to compete with the cheating Pakistanis.
Now I know may be some web hero will definately look at my avtar first and then pass some statement . A person should write down in a way that is decent . I mean sitting in front of the screen and passing on stupid indirect comments is not a good thing at all, wanna be a hero then face the person in person .I mean I myself have fought ,defended and have written harsh stuff in the past too but there is no use of it and its just going to spread hate and that is the last thing that this world needs now and I have finally realised that.Problem with me is that I give the direct answers. I saw a super dumb-head also mentioning Imran tempering in a match . I will say "get a life " and do not just pass the statement without even reading the book . Read the whole thing and do not just catch one part of the sentence , and amazing thing is in the Xuhaib's list there were all sorts of people i.e. black , white , brown , yellow . But most of the people are just pointing out one colour i.e. purple .
I was never going to jump into this issue but as I read the statement " This was the only way to compete with the cheating Pakistanis " , then I could not control it . You know what please stop it and accept that it is a human issue and a global one ..
And try to sit down some time face to face and settle down the differences one on one with the players and the offcials and do not be a web hero please .
I do not see decent and great posters commenting on this issue and me neither as I did not quote any one to start a quoting war. Enjoy yourself and please calm down .
Bottom line it is a "Global and a human issue , and do not be pacific .Please calm down , enjoy the life , get some air to breath and do not fight at all . Xuhaib it is a sensitive issue but I would like to say my friend "stay kool " and do not prolong this topic.
Bottom line 2: Who ever cheats , does a bad thing and please stop it now .
Get a life guys.

 

[Xuhaib]

What's wrong with that? They were two magnificent bowlers, whether they cheated or not.

The thing is they were not cheating, the skill they were performing was something new and later was given the name reverse swing which is now being accepted and used by every major team and it is a big part of cricket now.

 

[Jono]

I must admit, I do find this thread pretty interesting. Gutsy thread, but a good change-up IMO.

 

[Jono]

Dravid?

Was waiting for that, probably one of the holiest of holy to accuse of being a cheat (wouldn't think there be many more other than probably the Don), but he was found guilty of ball tampering and hence fits under the criteria of the thread.

 

[Sanz]

Xuhaib - would you mind answering two questions ?

a. Do you consider ball Tampering as Cheating ?
b. Do you believe that Waqar Tampered with the ball ?

 

[Legglancer]

My 11

Atherton
Afridi
Mark Waugh
Salim Malik
Azar
Hansie (capt)
Warne
Latif
Waqar
Prabakar
Pringle

 

[silentstriker]

Jack Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Don Bradman
Sachin Tendulkar
Viv Richards
Imran Khan
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Sydney Barnes
Dennis Lillee


If the criteria is 'cheated' and not 'proven to have cheated', then might as well make it the best team possible. I'm sure every one of these players did at least one thing that they shouldn't have in the decades that they played cricket.

 

[Sanz]

SilentStriker :- Please Take Sir Don's name out of this list and Dont even mention his name in this kind of thread ever.

 

[Legglancer]

SilentStriker :- Please Take Sir Don's name out of this list and Dont even mention his name in this kind of thread ever.

I second that thought !

 

[Jono]

Lol, I know the use of the word 'cheat' is pretty serious and hence using the Don and other greats is touchy, but I reckon his post is quite humorous.

 

[steds]

Lol, I know the use of the word 'cheat' is pretty serious and hence using the Don and other greats is touchy, but I reckon his post is quite humorous.

I agree. It never occured to me that that's a genuine list of people he reckons were cheaters with Hobbs, Gavaskar, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers and Gilchrist in there, and I found it funny.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Lol, I know the use of the word 'cheat' is pretty serious and hence using the Don and other greats is touchy, but I reckon his post is quite humorous.

I'm inclined to agree. I can see the point SS is making, let he who is without sin & all that.

I just don't like the idea of labelling players "cheats" on the basis of possibly one moment of madness. I've no qualms about calling Cronje a cheat, but I don't thnk (say) Afridi's little two-step is quite in the same league.

 

[Legglancer]

My 11

Atherton
Afridi
Mark Waugh
Salim Malik
Azar
Hansie (capt)
Warne
Latif
Waqar
Prabakar
Pringle

Ok Ive fine tuned the batting Order a tad

Atherton
Afridi
Mark Waugh
Salim Malik
Azarudeen
Hansie (Capt)
Rasheed Latif (WK)
Warne
Prabakar
Pringle
Waqar

Jadeja (12th Man)

 

[Smudge]

Enough is enough .
Xuhaib's point of view was may be to tell that cheating is a global and a human issue and these are the people who did it . Now I have seen a dumb clown trying to defend a kiwi bowler in a way that "this was the only way to compete with the cheating Pakistanis.
Now I know may be some web hero will definately look at my avtar first and then pass some statement . A person should write down in a way that is decent . I mean sitting in front of the screen and passing on stupid indirect comments is not a good thing at all, wanna be a hero then face the person in person .I mean I myself have fought ,defended and have written harsh stuff in the past too but there is no use of it and its just going to spread hate and that is the last thing that this world needs now and I have finally realised that.Problem with me is that I give the direct answers. I saw a super dumb-head also mentioning Imran tempering in a match . I will say "get a life " and do not just pass the statement without even reading the book . Read the whole thing and do not just catch one part of the sentence , and amazing thing is in the Xuhaib's list there were all sorts of people i.e. black , white , brown , yellow . But most of the people are just pointing out one colour i.e. purple .
I was never going to jump into this issue but as I read the statement " This was the only way to compete with the cheating Pakistanis " , then I could not control it . You know what please stop it and accept that it is a human issue and a global one ..
And try to sit down some time face to face and settle down the differences one on one with the players and the offcials and do not be a web hero please .
I do not see decent and great posters commenting on this issue and me neither as I did not quote any one to start a quoting war. Enjoy yourself and please calm down .
Bottom line it is a "Global and a human issue , and do not be pacific .Please calm down , enjoy the life , get some air to breath and do not fight at all . Xuhaib it is a sensitive issue but I would like to say my friend "stay kool " and do not prolong this topic.
Bottom line 2: Who ever cheats , does a bad thing and please stop it now .
Get a life guys.

I'm not quite sure what 90 percent of that post had to do with this thread.

 

[FRAZ]

I'm not quite sure what 90 percent of that post had to do with this thread.

HAHAHAHA ... Voltman is a great Sarcasm Hunter ............. I know you .. You are my favourite.....
lets see how it goes you know ............. http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=565695&postcount=16

 

[Smudge]

Well, if Sanz said it, it must be true.