Can the VB Series be England's saviour?

[Tim]

Infact there's an example of how stats can be deceiving.

You reckon the game was close..it was only close because Steve Waugh was given not out to a ridiculous decision while he was on 10 & then went on to make 70.

Im not someone to harp on about poor umpiring decisions but that test really was lost because of umpiring after NZ did everything else right.

 

[marc71178]

get your facts right, NZ were denied of a victory in the third test by umpiring blunders, NZ were certainly winning the match.To say that Aus would have won the series 3-0 is insult to imagination!

But as the match stood, had it been played out the game was very close - but they ran out of time - OK there were umpiring mistakes, but show me a team that doesn't have umpiring decisions go for them?

 

[Bazza]

Originally posted by Tim
I would have liked to have seen Hussain declare in Brisbane so far behind in order to call Steve Waugh's bluff!

Considering the situation NZ was in, it was the logical thing to do & Fleming received high praise from the Channel 9 team because of it.

Despite the fact that NZ were 150 runs still behind after they declared, Fleming still was game enough to challenge Steve Waugh into a game of risk despite knowing that if it back-fired NZ would have been severely thrashed.

And if that had happened, would you be sitting here now saying what a stupid decision it was and how Fleming's a carp captain and that the job should be given to someone else?

 

[TendulkarMark2]

Originally posted by marc71178

get your facts right, NZ were denied of a victory in the third test by umpiring blunders, NZ were certainly winning the match.To say that Aus would have won the series 3-0 is insult to imagination!

But as the match stood, had it been played out the game was very close - but they ran out of time - OK there were umpiring mistakes, but show me a team that doesn't have umpiring decisions go for them?

Thats besides the point, noone is saying that it occured coz of biased umpiring.The fact that you downplayed NZ effort and instead suggested that it would have been 3-0 to Aussies had the weather not interuppted the game was absurd.Steven Waugh is on record saying that Aus were lucky to have escaped a possible DEFEAT!!!

 

[Tim]

Obviously Fleming would have taken some criticism, however its better than letting the game die a slow death.

I Still think if NZ had lost the 1st test that some people would have been far happier to see Fleming challenge Waugh rather than accept defeat because they were still 150 runs behind.

 

[Tim]

I believe, Steve Waugh likes the opposition captain to call all the shots & make their mistakes. In recent times we've seen situations at the toss where Waugh has said he prefers to let the opposition captain decide.

You've got to force Steve Waugh into making some shots & im sure he wasn't expecting Fleming to declare so far behind. Instead Fleming challenged him & the ball was in Waugh's court as to whether he accepted it, he did and the onous was then on Waugh as to how he'd handle the situation.

Fleming called his bluff because he knew Waugh was an attacking captain & would probably dangle the carrot at 280-300 & make NZ chase to win..which they almost did.

 

[marc71178]

Thats besides the point, noone is saying that it occured coz of biased umpiring.The fact that you downplayed NZ effort and instead suggested that it would have been 3-0 to Aussies had the weather not interuppted the game was absurd.

I never said that - I said they would've won at least 2, and possibly all 3 - the last Test as it stood was too close to call either way, so I never said that Aus would've won it.

 

[TendulkarMark2]

Originally posted by marc71178

Thats besides the point, noone is saying that it occured coz of biased umpiring.The fact that you downplayed NZ effort and instead suggested that it would have been 3-0 to Aussies had the weather not interuppted the game was absurd.

I never said that - I said they would've won at least 2, and possibly all 3 - the last Test as it stood was too close to call either way, so I never said that Aus would've won it.

The last test was more likely to result in NZ victory, even Steven Waugh has admitted that.Now to say that it would possibly have been 3-0 to Aussies is absurd!

 

[marc71178]

Looking at the scores I said there was a possibility - at the close Aus were 59 short with 3 wickets in hand. Bearing in mind the resiliance and battling qualities of the Aussies, that doesn't look like a surefire win for NZ to me!

 

[TendulkarMark2]

Yeah but the mistake you made was making up your mind by just looking at the score.The way the match was going, NZ had a great chance of a win, indeed they were let down by poor umpiring!

 

[Choora]

England has forgotton how to Win...Langer!

Justin Langer said he believed England have forgotten how to win after the tourists stumbled to a second successive one-day warm-up defeat to Australia A.
England, already 3-0 down in the Ashes Test series, have yet to win a match on this tour, going into next week's one-day VB Series.

 

[Choora]

Now the question is that how can one forget that?? The only way i see is that England think that they are a vastly inferior side 2 Australia and have given up hope before the match has actually started!

 

[marc71178]

Originally posted by TendulkarMark2

Yeah but the mistake you made was making up your mind by just looking at the score.The way the match was going, NZ had a great chance of a win, indeed they were let down by poor umpiring!

Australia needed 59 with 3 wickets left and Gilchrist at one end in top form, so one could argue that Australia also had a great chance of a win when the match ended - the umpiring decisions, whether right or wrong, left it in that situation, and you can't deny that!

 

[TendulkarMark2]

Originally posted by marc71178

[
Australia needed 59 with 3 wickets left and Gilchrist at one end in top form, so one could argue that Australia also had a great chance of a win when the match ended - the umpiring decisions, whether right or wrong, left it in that situation, and you can't deny that!

What do mean by whether right or wrong?? The decisions were clearly wrong, noone can deny that.Even if the match had proceeded and resulted in an Aussie victory it would have been a BAD BAD result, as you said that the umpire would have LEFT THAT in such a position, so the credit would have gone to the umpires for any such result.
The whole point of discussing this series was that teams have done better in Australia, NZ came close to a victory and ended the tour with a drawn result.If a team is strong and willing to accept challenge,then it can stretch Australia, unfortunately the current Aussies opponents are proving to be a piece of cake for the Aussies!

 

[Tim]

As i said..stats don't always tell the truth of a match.

NZ had a chance to win it twice...firstly when Steve Waugh was given not out on 10 and then secondly when Jason Gillespie was given not out first ball to a caught behind off the gloves.

Marc, you really needed to watch the match to see just how well NZ played in that game.

 

[age_master]

Australia were beaten in india on a piticular occaion last time and ended up losing the series, so kiwi's can shut up and take their luck that it rained and they did not lose the first 2 tests

 

[Tim]

And Australia can take their luck that they won 1 out of the 4 VB Series matches against NZ after they were 80/5.

 

[Tim]

Anyway, I think we should end this subject because I can sense that its going to get out of control soon.

Back to the subject of England, seeing some of their players I think they'll be good enough to beat Sri Lanka. Ronnie Irani seems to have arrived in Australia on a mission which is what the team needs.

 

[Neil Pickup]

It's nice to see one player getting stuck in, anyway..

 

[marc71178]

Originally posted by age_master
Australia were beaten in india on a piticular occaion last time and ended up losing the series, so kiwi's can shut up and take their luck that it rained and they did not lose the first 2 tests

That's my point age, they can't moan about being denied victory in one of the Tests because the other 2 Aus deserved!