Can Steyn test the aussies ?

[Richard]

Haha, no, not at all, but it's well acknowledged that pitches in the 1930s in England (and in both the 1920s and 1930s in Australia) were, when not rain-affected, very often as flat as any in cricket history.

If they hadn't been, Bradman would probably have been slightly less insane in his scoring, might only have averaged 80 or so, but as I've said many times I find it quite conceivable that he'd actually have averaged a bit more had his debut come in the 2001/02 season.

 

[Precambrian]

Bowling round-the-wicket is the worst strategy for an inswing-to-the-LHB right-arm bowler like Steyn. If the delivery you're aiming for is such a ball (and I've seen no evidence yet that Steyn can get the ball to go the other way to order) then you must angle it accross and get it to come back. Bowling round-the-wicket makes the inswinger easier, not harder, to handle - unless it's going around corners Waqar Younis style, in which case it really doesn't matter where you bowl it from.

The only time a right-arm seamer should bowl around-the-wicket to a LHB is if he does not swing the ball back into him.

Valid point, but cannot dismiss the idea of bowling round the stumps altogether. If he gets to seam the ball and make it jag away from the LHB, then it will be interesting. Or even if continues to get natural swing into the LHB, due to his sheer pace he can LBWs.

 

[Precambrian]

Haha, no, not at all, but it's well acknowledged that pitches in the 1930s in England (and in both the 1920s and 1930s in Australia) were, when not rain-affected, very often as flat as any in cricket history.

If they hadn't been, Bradman would probably have been slightly less insane in his scoring, might only have averaged 80 or so, but as I've said many times I find it quite conceivable that he'd actually have averaged a bit more had his debut come in the 2001/02 season.

Hah, I tend to recollect that Boobidy line! Whats that "He never had to face the likes of Pathan and Sharma, not to mention a spinner like Sehwag"

Actually, given the variety of pitches on which players play, and the ODIs and the gruelling schedule, he'd be averaging probably in the 80s.

 

[Richard]

The above all help batsmen and disadvantage bowlers.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

He's hardly "sheer pace" either. I've seen a bit of him, and I think he looks quicker than he actually is. Much like Malinga.

 

[Richard]

Valid point, but cannot dismiss the idea of bowling round the stumps altogether. If he gets to seam the ball and make it jag away from the LHB, then it will be interesting. Or even if continues to get natural swing into the LHB, due to his sheer pace he can LBWs.

If you can get the ball to move away from the LHB as a right-arm seamer, you should bowl round-the-wicket almost without fail. Precious few bowlers can do this though, as I say.

If your strength as a right-arm seamer against LHBs is swinging the ball in, you should pretty well always be bowling over-the-wicket. The only time going around is not a bad idea is if you're swinging it so much it barely matters, and as I say there's Waqar Younis who's done this and only a small handful of others.

I myself, in limited-overs cricket, bowl over-the-wicket at left-handers whenever I have a ball that's doing much (I can bowl conventional outswing-to-the-RHB only) and only ever go around-the-wicket once it's stopped, and generally try to bowl leg-cutters (what would be off-cutters to RHBs).

Dale Steyn, as I say, is not someone I've ever seen swing the ball away from the LHB (into the RHB). I've only ever seen him get it to go in one direction.

And as has been said, the reason he's struggled so often against LHBs is that he seems to have difficulty getting his line right. Many right-armers are the same - the inswing is deadly for the LHB if you get it right, even more so than outswing is to the RHB. But some bowlers find adjusting to the change of line required less than straightforward.

 

[Richard]

He's hardly "sheer pace" either. I've seen a bit of him, and I think he looks quicker than he actually is. Much like Malinga.

The fact that he absolutely sprints to the crease is what creates this illusion, in no small part. And obviously with Maaalinga it's the slingshot nature. Steyn is similar to James Kirtley, he also can look exceptionally quick of times but I've never seen him reach more than 92mph.

Neither Steyn nor Maaalinga are in the Allan Donald \ Shaun Tait bracket of speed and I don't see any reason to suspect they ever will be. Not, obviously, that this precludes them from being excellent bowlers - those who bowl in the early-80s like Mohammad Asif have demonstrated that they can be about as good as you get anyway.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

The fact that he absolutely sprints to the crease is what creates this illusion, in no small part. And obviously with Maaalinga it's the slingshot nature. Steyn is similar to James Kirtley, he also can look exceptionally quick of times but I've never seen him reach more than 92mph.

Neither Steyn nor Maaalinga are in the Allan Donald \ Shaun Tait bracket of speed and I don't see any reason to suspect they ever will be. Not, obviously, that this precludes them from being excellent bowlers - those who bowl in the early-80s like Mohammad Asif have demonstrated that they can be about as good as you get anyway.

Oh absolutely. I'm just directing it at those who say he'll "worry the Aussies with his pace" which is absolute rubbish.

 

[Uppercut]

The fact that he absolutely sprints to the crease is what creates this illusion, in no small part. And obviously with Maaalinga it's the slingshot nature. Steyn is similar to James Kirtley, he also can look exceptionally quick of times but I've never seen him reach more than 92mph.

Neither Steyn nor Maaalinga are in the Allan Donald \ Shaun Tait bracket of speed and I don't see any reason to suspect they ever will be. Not, obviously, that this precludes them from being excellent bowlers - those who bowl in the early-80s like Mohammad Asif have demonstrated that they can be about as good as you get anyway.

Malinga and Steyn throw the ball down from a low trajectory so it reaches the batsman sooner than bouncy batsmen do, so in that sense they are quicker.The ball has less distance to travel. Another factor in the looks-faster-than-timed illusion, speed guns only time them out of the hand.

 

[Richard]

Hmm, I don't know that you think that works exactly the way I do, but I agree with essentially what you're saying.

How I'd put it is that the reaction-time for such low-slung bowlers is, given the same release speed (which is what I classify as the speed of a bowler - the pace with which he lets the ball go), lower than for a taller bowler.

I don't know exactly what the difference is as I don't know anywhere to find diagrams and calculations showing it and don't have any consigned to memory. I'd be willing to bet, though, that it's not much.

 

[Richard]

Oh absolutely. I'm just directing it at those who say he'll "worry the Aussies with his pace" which is absolute rubbish.

Generally, the notion of bowlers worrying batsmen purely with pace is. At the very least, in this day-and-age.

All bowlers need more than just speed to actually get useful hauls, even if not neccessarily to worry batsmen. However, worrying batsmen doesn't win matches - getting them out does.

 

[TT Boy]

He tends to get his line wrong though. Had real trouble against them in England, unlike Ntini who excels against lefties, and Hayden in particular actually.

Biggest fallacy going that.

 

[Uppercut]

Biggest fallacy going that.

I thought so when i saw him against Strauss and Cook over the summer, but he has a very good record in tests against them, no getting round that. If it's not the case now, it's because they've gotten used to him.

 

[Uppercut]

Hmm, I don't know that you think that works exactly the way I do, but I agree with essentially what you're saying.

How I'd put it is that the reaction-time for such low-slung bowlers is, given the same release speed (which is what I classify as the speed of a bowler - the pace with which he lets the ball go), lower than for a taller bowler.

I don't know exactly what the difference is as I don't know anywhere to find diagrams and calculations showing it and don't have any consigned to memory. I'd be willing to bet, though, that it's not much.

Yes but when you're arguing about the difference between a 92-93 mph bowler like Steyn or Malinga and a 95-96 mph bowler it definitely comes into play. Also that they both bowl full of a length makes them look faster.

Which is more difficult to play is a different matter entirely, of course, and i completely agree with the sentiments regarding pace being nothing on its own these days.

 

[TT Boy]

I thought so when i saw him against Strauss and Cook over the summer, but he has a very good record in tests against them, no getting round that. If it's not the case now, it's because they've gotten used to him.

Hayden will tonk him big time. He might own Katich though.

Morne Morkel is South Africa's best bowler against left handers...

 

[Precambrian]

Oh absolutely. I'm just directing it at those who say he'll "worry the Aussies with his pace" which is absolute rubbish.

No it's not, given he prefers to bowl length and considering the speed at which the ball will approach the batsmen due to that, can create big trouble. Even he demonstrated how good he was in India, even on roads like Chennai, when he got his line right.

 

[FBU]

Steyn's wickets

Batsmen 1-3
31.3%
Batsmen 4-7
34.4%
Batsmen 8-11
34.4%

You would expect an opening bowler to take 39/40% of the top order batsmen and about 25/26% of the tail. There won't be much tail wagging for Australia as Morkel also likes the tail (37.5%), but I expect Morkel to get injured at some time during the Tests. Kallis and Ntini to get the majority of the wickets because there won't be the swing and reverse swing that Steyn would be looking for.

Another swing bowler, Hoggard in Australia 45.31.

 

[silentstriker]

Brett Lee is yet to play on a grassy pitch in India though. But that's only a partial qualification. Steyn was awesome in that series.

Yes, he bowled really well, even on a Chennai pitch that would have lasted a month.

 

[TT Boy]

Yes, he bowled really well, even on a Chennai pitch that would have lasted a month.

They would still be batting now but Steyn did actually bowl well in that game, bowled an absolute beaut to Dhoni.

I think Steyn’s biggest problem is his mentality; he is a fragile cricketer and on his last tour of Australia where he made a fleeting appearance in the VB series he was reduced to tears after getting smashed.

 

[Precambrian]

They would still be batting now but Steyn did actually bowl well in that game, bowled an absolute beaut to Dhoni.

I think Steyn’s biggest problem is his mentality; he is a fragile cricketer and on his last tour of Australia where he made a fleeting appearance in the VB series he was reduced to tears after getting smashed.

He's grown leaps and bounds since then. I hope he'll emulate Dravid with the ball. Dravid struggled like anything during 1999 tour, but came back strongly in the 2003 tour.