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Brett Lee in ODI's

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Lee is an exceptional ODI bowler, and it doesn't surprise me at all that he is one of the best if not the best fast bowler of all time in ODIs. It just goes to show, when you need to score runs quickly, pace can often be your worst enemy.
 

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
age_master said:
Brett Lee should keep playing because the more he plays the better he gets. he hasn't even been bowling that many bouncers yet :D
Nah, he bowls beam balls instead... :p
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
tassietiger said:
Lee should carry drinks for two reasons:

a) If Gillespie carried them, knowing his luck at the moment he would drop them
b) Even if our attack is one-paced, it does have McGrath and Warne, and having Gillespie and Kasprowicz in there too would mean that the batsmen would really have to work hard for their runs, as they will all keep it tight, whereas Lee would be more expensive and ease the pressure on the English, who have already indicated that they will probably be going on the attack in the Test series.
Gillespie's form with the tray of drinks has nothing to do with luck at all - it's to do with balance, position at the bar and keeping that wrist nice and straight underneath the tray. Maybe he's unhappy. Is he getting a fair share of the tips?

Your second point is valid (at least the first part is) - McGrath and Warne are two of the greatest bowlers of my lifetime, although the bit about 'having to work for runs' against Gillespie would only apply if he shows a 100% improvement of his current form, otherwise it's party time for Freddie (working on the premise that Glenn's already got rid of Trescothick, Strauss and Vaughan).
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Mister Wright said:
Nah, he bowls beam balls instead... :p
well he'll learn that it may not have been such a wise move when the tests come round(providing that he is selected), i think harmy and flintoff might give him some painful deliveries.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Gillespie's not in good enough form to keep the runs down currently, and even if his form improves, Lee's wicket taking ability is more important.

Indeed, if Gillespie does hit form, having McGrath, Warne or Gillespie down the other end keeping it tight only makes things easier for Lee. The fact that people are also not realising, is that Lee is bowling far less bad balls now that he used to (as I've been saying for 6 months now), and that you can't simply "wait for his bad ball" because if you do that the way he's bowling at the moment, he bowls maidens. Yes, you can handle a few maidens in tests, but even there if you're not scoring, especially with McGrath down the other end, the pressure builds.

There's also the point that when someone is throwing down 90 mph outswingers, "seeing him off" is not as simple as it sounds.

As far as I can see it, Lee's problem in tests that he has to overcome is what he does when he doesn't get a wicket for a while. The Lee of old basically had two options. He put it right up there and looked for swing, usually away, sometimes coming back in a fraction, or if it wasn't swinging he jammed it in short at the ribs and tried to scare you out. This still worked enough for him to get a wicket every 53 balls, but not well enough to make him a top class fast bowler in tests. His other problem of course was that even when it was working, he really wasn't accurate enough to do it often. He could bowl it quick and get it to swing, but he'd often spray it all over the place in the process.

The second problem Lee has already corrected. His economy rate is going down in ODIs, because he's improved his accuracy so much. Now, when the ball is swinging, he puts 5-6 balls up there, moving around, on or outside off stump. That's fine, and he'll do well in tests like that and I'm confident that alone will see a significant improvement in his test performances.

His other problem we're yet to see his answer to. Lee still goes to pieces a bit when he's getting smashed around, and does suffer from a lack of variation and a quality "stock ball" which he can keep putting up there that the batsman can't hit... which McGrath, Gillespie and Kasprowicz all have. The only way you can really develop this asset is in 4 or 5 day cricket which Lee hasn't been playing for 18 months now. He can still be a good test bowler, certainly good enough to make the team, the way he is bowling now. He's a handy batsman and an excellent fielder to go with it, he adds extra variation to the attack, and he's done well enough in the ODIs so far that England will be wary of him, while Gillespie is just going to get pounded the way things are going. To become a world class test bowler, he's got to work on his options when things aren't going well for him, because he's 28 and there will come a time when he can't just be used in vicious bursts at the top order and come back when it's reversing.

Regarding the third seaming spot, I'm leaning increasingly towards Kasprowicz, as harsh as it is to drop a proven performer like Gillespie at just 30 years of age. He just doesn't look up to the task currently. Maybe pick him at Lords, but if things don't work out there and Kasprowicz does well tomorrow and in the four day warmup match, Gillespie might find himself carrying drinks for a while, and with Tait in the wings who knows when he will get another chance.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
As an Englishman I'd be very pleased to see Dizzy make the test team. I'd be a little surprised if he did now tho. I think him not being trusted with his full complement on Sunday spoke volumes. One thing Australian selectors have always had is the gumption not to let sentiment affect their judgement. 30 is a little young to write a quick's obit, but I doubt many 30 YOs have either the mileage on the clock or the knocks that Gillespie has had. Temporary slump or terminal decline, I dunno; I do know he's bang out of form. He no longer has the pace to trouble batters & his accuracy has deserted him, possibly temporarily, possibly not.

With only one FC match before the first test Australia are limited in the options they have. McGrath I’d guess may be rested (although as a rhythm bowler he may prefer to play) and I suspect Lee, Kasper & Gillespie will start. A blistering performance may yet save Dizzy, but I've no doubt serious words are being had amongst the selectors.

A lot has been written in the press over here of our batters “targeting” Gillespie, I actually doubt that is the case tho. Rather I think it’s more a case of his bowling being the easiest to milk. Even going right back to the 20/20 international, he has looked the weakest link.
 

Hazza

U19 Cricketer
age_master said:
Brett Lee should keep playing because the more he plays the better he gets. he hasn't even been bowling that many bouncers yet :D
He bowled a craking beamer though- 91.1 mph right at Tresco's head. I felt privileged to watch it rather than face it.
 

Linda

International Vice-Captain
Hazza said:
He bowled a craking beamer though- 91.1 mph right at Tresco's head. I felt privileged to watch it rather than face it.
Because lets face, thats what we're all gunning for - carnage.
 

Scallywag

Banned
Posters not interested in statistics go no further, if all you want to do is complain tell someone who cares.

If you remove games against bangledesh Lee has a better strike rate than Bond.
 

C_C

International Captain
Lee is a good ODI bowler, but i would take the likes of Waqar, Wasim,McGrath,Garner,Ambrose, Murali etc. long before i take Lee.
 

Scallywag

Banned
C_C said:
Lee is a good ODI bowler, but i would take the likes of Waqar, Wasim,McGrath,Garner,Ambrose, Murali etc. long before i take Lee.
Lee is more than a good ODI bowler he is an all time great. Botham believes he is the best there has ever been. :D
 

Simon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Scallywag said:
Posters not interested in statistics go no further, if all you want to do is complain tell someone who cares.

If you remove games against bangledesh Lee has a better strike rate than Bond.
what about games against teams like Kenya? i remember Lee taking a hat trick against them so he must have had some pretty handy figures...
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Lee is a good one day bowler, but I hope he doesn't play in the Tests. Even if you look at the 5/41 he took recently, all five wickets were ones that you would probably never get in a Test Match situation - two wild flails outside off from blokes not in the test team, and then three wickets after the 45 over mark when blokes are going for the slog.

Scallywag said:
Botham believes he is the best there has ever been. :D
He also believes Pietersen should be playing Test Match cricket over Graham Thorpe. You could also argue that he wants England to win - that's why he's trying to put public pressure on the selectors...maybe.
 

C_C

International Captain
Lee is more than a good ODI bowler he is an all time great. Botham believes he is the best there has ever been.
He isnt an alltime great in my books.
An alltime great ( like Akram/McGrath/Murali/Garner/Saqlain etc.) have excellent wicket-taking ability AND economy rate.
lee has the former, though not the latter...and if wicket-taking is the big thing, i still would be more inclined to go with Waqar/Donald than Lee.
 

shaka

International Regular
He is now the 2nd quickest to 200 ODI wickets, only taking 112 games, beating out Donald, but is not number 1.
 
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C_C

International Captain
Likewise, i am sure Lee is ecstatic that one white superiorist(Scally) thinks that he is the best thing since sliced bread.
8-) 8-)
 

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