BREAKING NEWS:::: SHOIAB and ASIF ban Lifted!!!!!!

[R_D]

So just to confirm, they didn't get off on a technicality at all did they. It was pretty much a retrial with the same arguments being put forward, only this time a different decision being made.

Yes or no?

Yes certainly sounds like that... although i haven't read the 30 page report... From the extracts people have posted it does sound like Ignorance was the reason they got off for.

 

[Rajeev]

Should be banned for Negligence but getting away scot free?

How would ICC see this, would they check the reports and then allow them to play

Good news for Pakistani fans though and great to know corruption and influence still works in the sub-con. phew got worried there

 

[archie mac]

PAKISTAN CRICKET

When it comes to match fixing= soft

When it comes to player dissent=soft

When it comes to drug cheats=soft

 

[shortpitched713]

Warne got a year, so it seems only fair they get the same.

Don't agree with the verdict by any means, I feel they should have been punished and for that not to have happened is ludicrous.

Still, I don't understand what Warne has got to do with this. That is the ACB's precedent and it would make sense for the ACB to follow it for any guilty drug cheats that are found in the future. The PCB had set its own precedent by banning Shoaib for 2 years and I never heard anyone complain then. Sure they've mucked up things considerably with this new verdict, but I don't neccesarily see whats wrong with different countries setting their own punishments for such infractions. Obviously the bungling of the current case is far from ideal, but still there's nothing wrong with each country handling these issues in the way that they see fit.

 

[Slow Love™]

Don't agree with the verdict by any means, I feel they should have been punished and for that not to have happened is ludicrous.

Still, I don't understand what Warne has got to do with this. That is the ACB's precedent and it would make sense for the ACB to follow it for any guilty drug cheats that are found in the future. The PCB had set its own precedent by banning Shoaib for 2 years and I never heard anyone complain then. Sure they've mucked up things considerably with this new verdict, but I don't neccesarily see whats wrong with different countries setting their own punishments for such infractions. Obviously the bungling of the current case is far from ideal, but still there's nothing wrong with each country handling these issues in the way that they see fit.

Part of what Warne has to do with this is that he claimed a similar defence - only it was not considered adequate for acquittal (it may have had a say in his sentencing, some of the reasoning on that was a bit cloudy). So given that the defences are similar, people may well ask why Asif and Akhtar would get off on such a defence, and Warne would not.

And this leads to a bigger issue - uniformity of standards and penalties. I completely disagree with you as to different countries imposing their own penalties, and I think that the ACB and PCB verdicts have made it clear why that won't fly. I think many of us were impressed by the PCB's seeming professionalism as to this incident, and many of us wanted to pat them on the back for tackling the problem seriously.

However, IMO it is in the best interests of the sport to impose these standards uniformly, and the ICC as the governing body of the sport should impose them. In fact, as a result of what we've seen here, I think the ICC should go ahead and form guidelines that preclude different boards from exclusively handling this issue. If they wish to impose their own additional consequences, so be it, but it should be in the ICC's responsibilities to impose the appropriate standards and minimal penalties etc. It seems silly to have an internationally contested professional sport where one drug cheat in one country serves a substantially shorter/longer penalty than one in another. Of course there are some offences more serious than others, and the standards should reflect that, but I don't think this can be left to the individual boards to police.

The substantive issue of how these two got off is testimony to this - under ICC guidelines, it couldn't have happened, ignorance of this kind is simply not accepted as a valid defence. But under the guidelines the PCB decided to use, it was. It's a good illustration of why the standards should be uniform - you can't have such different criterias just for allowing types of defences across different countries when they are all competing (against) each other on an otherwise level playing field, it would be a fiasco.

 

[mohammad16]

well if u guys think PCB is currupted, dont u think its a possibility that the original results, were all a part of an internal scheme

it could be, we all know that shoaib has enough enemies in pakistan cricket, PCB is well capable of doing something liek this since we all consider them currupt anyways plus no other party was invovled, icc or wada, no one

ALSO, if this is PCBs doing then pcb could well have hidden the results, forgon the tests, or taken the tests and alerted shoaib and asif to get the substace removed from thier systems rather then ACCUSING them and letting them go which sounds much more fishy

either accuse pcb or the players, they both arent at fault here, i refuse to believe that

 

[shortpitched713]

I agree that ideally there should be a uniform standard set in place for all countries as far as anti-doping punishments go. Still, I don't see the ICC doing something like that though. When was the last time you've seen the ICC intervene in an important issue concerning the welfare of world cricket unless it was in the best interests of the ICC? This issue is too contentious and the IIC won't touch it, IMO.

Until the ICC grows a spine however, I think that each country can set practical punishments for the infraction of doping and determine the various degrees of guilt of parties involved. The inability of boards to do so would reflect poorly on themselves, and is really the main reason the PCB comes out of this looking so bad.

 

[shortpitched713]

well if u guys think PCB is currupted, dont u think its a possibility that the original results, were all a part of an internal scheme

it could be, we all know that shoaib has enough enemies in pakistan cricket, PCB is well capable of doing something liek this since we all consider them currupt anyways plus no other party was invovled, icc or wada, no one

ALSO, if this is PCBs doing then pcb could well have hidden the results, forgon the tests, or taken the tests and alerted shoaib and asif to get the substace removed from thier systems rather then ACCUSING them and letting them go which sounds much more fishy

either accuse pcb or the players, they both arent at fault here, i refuse to believe that

Pretty poor post. Shoaib and Asif are at fault for taking banned substances. The PCB are at fault for letting them off due to their own incompetence. Don't see whats so hard to understand really.

 

[Slow Love™]

looking forward to hearing Slove love's verdict on this

Haha, already given.

So just to confirm, they didn't get off on a technicality at all did they. It was pretty much a retrial with the same arguments being put forward, only this time a different decision being made.

Yes or no?

I guess it depends on what you call a technicality, but I'd say "yes". What happened was that the tribunal found that under the guidelines the PCB had in place for dealing with banned substances, they should have allowed for a defence of ignorance. When the PCB originally imposed the penalty, they ruled that ignorance wasn't a valid defence (as per ICC standards). So the tribunal yesterday overturned that ruling and accepted ignorance as a defence, finding that the PCB was responsible for the players' education and instruction when it came to issues revolving around banned substances, and that they'd failed in that duty to the players.

It doesn't really deal with the plausibility of Asif and Akhtar's cases, and IMO errs too much towards whether it could be proven that Asif and Akhtar absorbed lectures or read materials provided to them. I think on that basis that it's going to be way too easy for somebody to get away with illegal substance use in future. Which is probably why the ICC standards don't allow for such a defence. If somebody can make a case that something was spiked, or that their doctor lied to them (or was mistaken about a substance), I'm all ears for extenuating circumstances, but not this simple "I didn't know I had to check every supplement friends gave me" rubbish.

 

[Slow Love™]

I agree that ideally there should be a uniform standard set in place for all countries as far as anti-doping punishments go. Still, I don't see the ICC doing something like that though. When was the last time you've seen the ICC intervene in an important issue concerning the welfare of world cricket unless it was in the best interests of the ICC? This issue is too contentious and the IIC won't touch it, IMO.

Until the ICC grows a spine however, I think that each country can set practical punishments for the infraction of doping and determine the various degrees of guilt of parties involved. The inability of boards to do so would reflect poorly on themselves, and is really the main reason the PCB comes out of this looking so bad.

Well, I guess my argument isn't so much about what I think the ICC will or won't do, so much as what they should do, so I guess we're in agreement on that. The ICC does obviously have governing standards and guidelines, it's just that in this case, the testing was pre-empted by the PCB's own tests - so those guidelines couldn't really be enforced.

Some minor changes in law could probably avert this though - you just need the member countries to accept the ICC standards (and possibly ICC staff) when it comes to this matter. IMO as long as you allow countries to impose their own standards (particularly when it comes to valid defences, but as for penalties as well), we are going to have some ridiculously uneven situations, and the inevitable "one rule for some, a different rule for others" eventualities. I don't think self-regulation is going to work very well in this situation, so I really think the ICC needs to take control of the process.

I'm not up on what all other sports do though - it seems like in relation to swimming it's centrally governed, what about other major international sports?

 

[pasag]

White idiots are opposing the decision just because Shoaib & Asif are asians(and above all,Pakistanis),some Pakistanis & Indians r also following them just show the whites that they r true Gora Ghulams.I highly doubt thatall these idiots would've made same comments had some whites have been proven drug cheats.

Please tell me that if PCB are corrupt,why didn't they hide all this when the results first came out?These white racists r too dumb to understand that this decision has not been made by PCB but by a tribunal of three independent people.Now u think PCB have always been corrupt,but why were u admiring the committees decision when they banned both these guys?

u people r racists & reactions of idiots likle scaly_piscine & two other racists in the thread prove it.

If that doesn't get you banned, really, I don't know what will.

 

[mohammad16]

If that doesn't get you banned, really, I don't know what will.

lol word

but hes got a point there, all of this can be a big scheme by the pcb which didnt go right, thus they were forced to let go of asif and shoaib

 

[BhupinderSingh]

If that doesn't get you banned, really, I don't know what will.

Yes,yes ban everyone who says the truth.

 

[Slow Love™]

White idiots are opposing the decision just because Shoaib & Asif are asians(and above all,Pakistanis),some Pakistanis & Indians r also following them just show the whites that they r true Gora Ghulams.I highly doubt thatall these idiots would've made same comments had some whites have been proven drug cheats.

Please tell me that if PCB are corrupt,why didn't they hide all this when the results first came out?These white racists r too dumb to understand that this decision has not been made by PCB but by a tribunal of three independent people.Now u think PCB have always been corrupt,but why were u admiring the committees decision when they banned both these guys?

u people r racists & reactions of idiots likle scaly_piscine & two other racists in the thread prove it.

The "PCB had this in mind as a conspiracy" angle doesn't really work, because yes, there would definitely be easier ways to resolve this without making this an issue for the worldwide press and public to observe. So I do think those kind of assumptions are generally kinda stupid.

However, why is it that you have to throw all this OTT "white racist" garbage into all your posts? There were plenty of people on the subcontinent (and elsewhere!) who weren't happy with Warne's one year penalty, and who think he got off light. Are they racists? Are many of them "brown racists?". People can have a contrary and negative opinion without being bigots, you know.

Could you just ****ing cut it out already? You sound like a complete idiot.

 

[mohammad16]

Yes,yes ban everyone who says the truth.

buddy calm down man, most white people arent racist, atleast it doenst appear so

 

[Rajeev]

Ball tampering - 2 match ban
Pitch tampering - 5 match ban
Picking the ball from the ground and appealing for a catch - 10 match ban

Saving your players from the ICC for dope abuse - Priceless

There are some things cameras will catch. For everything else, there's PCB

 

[pasag]

Haha, thats not bad tbh.

 

[mohammad16]

Ball tampering - 2 match ban
Pitch tampering - 5 match ban
Picking the ball from the ground and appealing for a catch - 10 match ban

Saving your players from the ICC for dope abuse - Priceless

There are some things cameras will catch. For everything else, there's PCB

thats weak

 

[Dravid]

i predict you gettin your ass kicked if you dont shut your **** hole!!

Haha what a fag.

My ass kicked by who?

 

[Dravid]

i would not realy call these two cheaters because they simply didnt play any match suposingly with drugs during the match.
lets take it this way... if some one has the answer sheet for there test but dont take any test would they be called cheaters???
__________________

Yes they would pretty much.