Best spinner after Warne/Murali ( 90s onwards) ?

[ataraxia]

Not a lot of love for Saqlain Mushtaq (off spinner) and Mushtaq Ahmed (leg spinner), both world class spinners in a very very strong era.

Just FYI, CW rates players relative to their era: even though a Hendren or a Bedser or a Boon would be fairly **** these days, definitely not test regular level, we still rate them on par to Babar or Hazlewood.

 

[honestbharani]

Saqlain was such a master. I still don't understand why he didn't have a 500 test wicket career.

Coz he was not good enough.


And it's nice to see the nonsense being perpetuated about Kumble s bowling by those who obviously have never seen him bowl.

The simple fact is Kumble had as much help from home pitches in the 90s as Ash did till 2015.

Kumble is, in my opinion, a better spinner by a little bit because he played the holding role slightly better than Ash has done. Ash the better cricketer overall obviously.

 

[subshakerz]

Coz he was not good enough.


And it's nice to see the nonsense being perpetuated about Kumble s bowling by those who obviously have never seen him bowl.

The simple fact is Kumble had as much help from home pitches in the 90s as Ash did till 2015.

Kumble is, in my opinion, a better spinner by a little bit because he played the holding role slightly better than Ash has done. Ash the better cricketer overall obviously.

Well at least you're half right.

 

[honestbharani]

 

[Migara]

Saqlain without his doosra would have career similar to Harbhajan in 00 who stopped bowling doosra when people accused him of chucking . He gets over-rated in these comparisons because he retired before his decline begin . 2 more Test against India in 2004 series and he would be averaging 30+ With around 200 wickets.

Knee injury did him. Otherwise 1999 might have been all over again.

 

[Sunil1z]

Knee injury did him. Otherwise 1999 might have been all over again.

1999 series was on dustbowls. That is why no team scored 350 even once in 3 Tests .

2004 series was on flat tracks . This is why all the 3 Tests had score of 500+ .

And considering the fact that Sehwag averaged 60 in SL in Murali + Mendis series (2008) , I am extremely confident that Saqlain would have ended with 30+ average if he had completed 2004 series which was mostly played on flat tracks.

Saqlain like Swann protected his average by retiring mid series. Otherwise both of them would have averaged similar to Harbhajan if they had played atleast 20 tests more.

 

[Migara]

1999 series was on dustbowls. That is why no team scored 350 even once in 3 Tests .

2004 series was on flat tracks . This is why all the 3 Tests had score of 500+ .

And considering the fact that Sehwag averaged 60 in SL in Murali + Mendis series (2008) , I am extremely confident that Saqlain would have ended with 30+ average if he had completed 2004 series which was mostly played on flat tracks.

Saqlain like Swann protected his average by retiring mid series. Otherwise both of them would have averaged similar to Harbhajan if they had played at least 20 tests more.

BS to be honest. A fit and firing Saqlain would have made Pakistanis to prepare spinning pitches. Saqlain was coming out of an injury and even couldn't complete his action properly. Saqlain had a crack at Indian batting lineup at multiple times and he came out with trumps. Then Swann who was a less skilled spinner doing the same means that Indian line up dominating a fit Saqlain is very remote.

 

[Sunil1z]

BS to be honest. A fit and firing Saqlain would have made Pakistanis to prepare spinning pitches. Saqlain was coming out of an injury and even couldn't complete his action properly. Saqlain had a crack at Indian batting lineup at multiple times and he came out with trumps. Then Swann who was a less skilled spinner doing the same means that Indian line up dominating a fit Saqlain is very remote.

Saqlain played grand total Test of 4 Test against India . 3 in 99 and 1 in 04. So where does this multiple times number came from ?
You need to check stats before typing any BS that comes to your mind
And Swann averaged 33 against India . 33 is by no means dominating .

Before making your next post atleast check the stats .

 

[subshakerz]

1999 series was on dustbowls. That is why no team scored 350 even once in 3 Tests .

2004 series was on flat tracks . This is why all the 3 Tests had score of 500+ .

And considering the fact that Sehwag averaged 60 in SL in Murali + Mendis series (2008) , I am extremely confident that Saqlain would have ended with 30+ average if he had completed 2004 series which was mostly played on flat tracks.

Saqlain like Swann protected his average by retiring mid series. Otherwise both of them would have averaged similar to Harbhajan if they had played atleast 20 tests more.

Saqlain's entire home career was on flat tracks i. Pakistan.

 

[Sunil1z]

Saqlain's entire home career was on flat tracks i. Pakistan.

Which is why I said if he had played more particularly in late 00 his average would have been similar to Harbhajan.
Pitches all around the world in 00 between 03 and 11 became extremely flat .

 

[Migara]

Saqlain played grand total Test of 4 Test against India . 3 in 99 and 1 in 04. So where does this multiple times number came from ?
You need to check stats before typing any BS that comes to your mind
And Swann averaged 33 against India . 33 is by no means dominating .

Before making your next post atleast check the stats .

Saqlain paid many ODIs against India and dominated them too. Even in ODIs, Indians failed to master him, which were generally played on much flatter tracks. So when every form of cricket is considered it appears 2004 match is the odd one. When Saqlain was fit, he utterly dominated India, what ever the format it was.

 

[Sunil1z]

Saqlain paid many ODIs against India and dominated them too. Even in ODIs, Indians failed to master him, which were generally played on much flatter tracks. So when every form of cricket is considered it appears 2004 match is the odd one. When Saqlain was fit, he utterly dominated India, what ever the format it was.

So basically you are saying that Gilchrist and Dhoni were the best batsman against Murali because they dominated him in ODI. Good analogy ?

 

[subshakerz]

Which is why I said if he had played more particularly in late 00 his average would have been similar to Harbhajan.
Pitches all around the world in 00 between 03 and 11 became extremely flat .

I still think he would have done well and not go beyond a 1 point difference.

 

[Anil]

gave a pity vote to kumble but obviously the answer to the thread is....jadeja.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Saqlain still having nightmares of bowling to Hrishikesh Kanitkar, much less any of the other Indian batsmen

 

[Gob]

Saqlain is getting massively over rated here. He is not even close to Harbhajan who is not close to Kumble

 

[Gob]

Saqlain paid many ODIs against India and dominated them too. Even in ODIs, Indians failed to master him, which were generally played on much flatter tracks. So when every form of cricket is considered it appears 2004 match is the odd one. When Saqlain was fit, he utterly dominated India, what ever the format it was.

Narrator - He often wasn't

 

[TheJediBrah]

Saqlain is getting massively over rated here. He is not even close to Harbhajan

Go home Gob you're drunk

 

[Migara]

So basically you are saying that Gilchrist and Dhoni were the best batsman against Murali because they dominated him in ODI. Good analogy ?

That statement lowered the IQ of the whole board by few points.

 

[Migara]

Narrator - He often wasn't

95-99 he was. It is just Pakistan had a **** healthcare system, where snake oil practitioners have attended to a knee injury of an international cricketer.