Best spinner after Warne/Murali ( 90s onwards) ?

[subshakerz]

Kumble, but not by much. Him and Ashwin clearly the best by a long margin ahead of the others.

Pound for pound, Saqlain and Swann were better spinners for me, but not enough wickets to justify them going ahead.

 

[BazBall21]

The presence of a successful spinning all-rounder in Jadeja and a strong pace attack has afforded Ashwin to be the most conditions-protected bowler of his generation. He averages 41 in SENA. Kumble struggled away from home first half of his career in the more hostile circumstances of much less hiding place but still ended up with a lower average in the same demographic. And like others said, he would have been deadlier at home than he was with DRS.
Worth noting that Ashwin’s batting perhaps takes him ahead as a cricketer though.

 

[Xix2565]

The presence of a successful spinning all-rounder in Jadeja and a strong pace attack has afforded Ashwin to be the most conditions-protected bowler of his generation.

Anderson exists ffs. Worthless as a point against Ashwin when Kumble isn't exactly bossing him as far as comparisons go.

 

[Xix2565]

Pound for pound, Saqlain and Swann were better spinners for me, but not enough wickets to justify them going ahead.

Well we know by now to ignore you on comparisons so cool reply I guess.

 

[BazBall21]

Anderson exists ffs. Worthless as a point against Ashwin when Kumble isn't exactly bossing him as far as comparisons go.

Kumble has done a fair bit more in SENA. He actually has 4WPM there which is a good effort along with his five 5 wicket-hauls. If Ashwin didn’t average over 40 in SENA then the counter-argument that he has missed out on opportunities compared to Kumble would hold more water. He was very good in Australia in 2019/20 tbf.

I agree that Anderson has had the luxury of some conditions-protection but not as much as Ashwin. He didn’t play a Test in England and bowled an average of 10 overs per innings in SA. This despite them being a bowler short in one of the Tests due to injury.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Not a lot of love for Saqlain Mushtaq (off spinner) and Mushtaq Ahmed (leg spinner), both world class spinners in a very very strong era.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Pound for pound, Saqlain and Swann were better spinners for me, but not enough wickets to justify them going ahead.

Agreed. Talented too. I guess longevity more so in Saqlain's case, may count against them

 

[subshakerz]

Anderson exists ffs. Worthless as a point against Ashwin when Kumble isn't exactly bossing him as far as comparisons go.

Anderson, you mean the guy who just bowled England to a series victory in Pakistan, was the best overseas bowler in UAE, and multiple matches won in SL and India?

 

[subshakerz]

Well we know by now to ignore you on comparisons so cool reply I guess.

Thanks for ignoring me by replying to my messages.

 

[Xix2565]

Kumble has done a fair bit more in SENA. He actually has 4WPM there which is a good effort along with his five 5 wicket-hauls. If Ashwin didn’t average over 40 in SENA then the counter-argument that he has missed out on opportunities compared to Kumble would hold more water. He was very good in Australia in 2019/20 tbf.

I agree that Anderson has had the luxury of conditions-protection but not as much as Ashwin. He didn’t play a Test in England and bowled an average of 10 overs per innings in SA. This despite them being a bowler short in one of the Tests due to injury.

I mean you can always argue that some of that is just down to the Hadlee/Murali syndrome of not having anyone else to take the wickets, while for India post 2015 onwards Ashwin hasn't exactly had to play a lone hand all that often. I'm not sure why being bad away from home early on in his career is that much of a negative against him when Kumble wasn't exactly streets ahead of him in a flatter era.

 

[subshakerz]

Not a lot of love for Saqlain Mushtaq (off spinner) and Mushtaq Ahmed (leg spinner), both world class spinners in a very very strong era.

Mushtaq in his peak was better than all of these spinners. But sucked truly before and after.

 

[Sunil1z]

Saqlain without his doosra would have career similar to Harbhajan in 00 who stopped bowling doosra when people accused him of chucking . He gets over-rated in these comparisons because he retired before his decline begin . 2 more Test against India in 2004 series and he would be averaging 30+ With around 200 wickets.

 

[subshakerz]

I mean you can always argue that some of that is just down to the Hadlee/Murali syndrome of not having anyone else to take the wickets, while for India post 2015 onwards Ashwin hasn't exactly had to play a lone hand all that often. I'm not sure why being bad away from home early on in his career is that much of a negative against him when Kumble wasn't exactly streets ahead of him in a flatter era.

Kumble in the flatter era took 44 wickets in 7 tests on absolute roads against a monster batting lineup in Australia. Key performances in won games for India in both his tours to England.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Kumble barely qualifies as a spinner. Joking but anyway, if Ashwin was played abroad more often, his record would resemble Kumble's. Kumble sent down plenty of innocuous stuff in foreign conditions in his time.

 

[subshakerz]

Saqlain without his doosra would have career similar to Harbhajan in 00 who stopped bowling doosra when people accused him of chucking . He gets over-rated in these comparisons because he retired before his decline begin . 2 more Test against India in 2004 series and he would be averaging 30+ With around 200 wickets.

It wasn't a decline, it was a knee injury.

 

[BazBall21]

I mean you can always argue that some of that is just down to the Hadlee/Murali syndrome of not having anyone else to take the wickets, while for India post 2015 onwards Ashwin hasn't exactly had to play a lone hand all that often. I'm not sure why being bad away from home early on in his career is that much of a negative against him when Kumble wasn't exactly streets ahead of him in a flatter era.

I just think Ashwin’s average in SENA would need to be lower for the argument that if he had the same access as Kumble to SENA opportunities (more Tests and overs per innings) he would have the better figures to hold up. Kumble at times took wickets because somebody had to but equally that means no hiding place which is hostile.

 

[Xix2565]

I just think Ashwin’s average in SENA would need to be lower for the argument that if he had the same access as Kumble to SENA opportunities (more Tests and overs per innings) he would have the better figures to hold up. Kumble at times took wickets because somebody had to but equally that means no hiding place which is hostile.

I mean that was never what I discussed though? I've never bought into the idea that being a little better in SENA between these two is enough to make a substantial difference as far as rating them. And it completely ignores pitch preparation and how that affects spinners a lot more negatively than fast bowlers.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Mushtaq in his peak was better than all of these spinners. But sucked truly before and after.

Saqlain Mushtaq was probably the first off spinner to invent the Doosra. I remember him bowling an absolute peach of a Doosra to Damien Martyn (really good batsman) in a One Day International match. David Gower who was commentating at the time said "Ohh well bowled......that's absolutely gorgeous". Saqlain Mushtaq was truly a world class spinner. I rate him ahead of Lyon in my opinion. Anyway here is that Doosra to Martyn below......and enjoy :-)

 

[BazBall21]

I mean that was never what I discussed though? I've never bought into the idea that being a little better in SENA between these two is enough to make a substantial difference as far as rating them. And it completely ignores pitch preparation and how that affects spinners a lot more negatively than fast bowlers.

Both guns at home, so I’d take the one that has a clear edge in hostile conditions personally. Yeah spin is a more pitch-dependent art than pace, not sure Ashwin has had more hostile pitches outside Asia, would have to do more research on that though.
I think that statistically Chandra is probably India’s best all-conditions spinner, but pitches pre-1980 appeared more helpful to spinners.

 

[ankitj]

Saqlain was such a master. I still don't understand why he didn't have a 500 test wicket career.