Best fast bowler in the world ATM?

[marc71178]

I don't follow - you're saying thatgiven the exact same situation, England's batsmen would've performed worse against McGrath or Pollock than they did against Vaas?

Why do you say that?

 

[Craig]

I believe I have seen McGrath bowl reverse swing. He did it against big Merv in the 2nd innins in Brisbane in 2000 v WI.

That series was a complete farce IMo of the WI performances.

 

[tooextracool]

Basically, McGrath is as adept as anyone at exploiting green wickets, but Chaminda at his best can match him - he can also exploit non-seaming wickets, by getting movement off them with cutters, and movement in the air with both new and old ball.

can u name me one performance of vaas where he has done well on seaming wickets outside of the sub continent??? - barring matches against bangladesh and zimbabwe

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

can u name me one performance of vaas where he has done well on seaming wickets outside of the sub continent??? - barring matches against bangladesh and zimbabwe

AFAIK Vaas only tends to do well on seaming wickets, therefore there should be a few on offer.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Exactly. Where exactly did you get that idea from, tooextracool?

 

[V Reddy]

I believe I have seen McGrath bowl reverse swing. He did it against big Merv in the 2nd innins in Brisbane in 2000 v WI.

That series was a complete farce IMo of the WI performances.

I have seen McGrath get reverse quite often. Try to look at the end overs in onedayers when he bowls those yorkers and in tests in india he always gets reverse swing with the old ball.

By playing 5 out of 6 i mean he always tempts the batsman to play and that the batsman in doubt 5-6 to play or not.

 

[Eclipse]

yeah I have seen McGrath reverse swing the ball he is not a master of it but he does do it reguarly when bowling yorkers with the old ball.

 

[Craig]

Shaun Tait is another bowler capable of making the ball go 'Irish'.

 

[tooextracool]

Exactly. Where exactly did you get that idea from, tooextracool?

i cant even think of one!!

 

[Richard]

I don't follow - you're saying thatgiven the exact same situation, England's batsmen would've performed worse against McGrath or Pollock than they did against Vaas?

Why do you say that?

Simple - history shows that batsmen from all over everywhere have done just that.

 

[Richard]

i cant even think of one!!

A couple of examples are the New Zealand series of 1994\95, the Pakistan Tests in 1995\96 and two of the three Tests in Sri Lanka against Australia in 1999\2000.

 

[marc71178]

I don't buy that - there is no way those 2 can have taken so many wickets because batsmen play badly against them - it is an impossibility.

 

[Swervy]

I don't buy that - there is no way those 2 can have taken so many wickets because batsmen play badly against them - it is an impossibility.

same here,just cant see it

 

[Richard]

That's because you both stick determinedly to the theorem that batsmen are invariably bothered by the scoring-rate being slow when they should not be because it doesn't matter.
Personally I think there are enough instances of innocuous bowling, exposed as such, which is very accurate to disprove that.
If you want to, I'm really not going to change either of your minds. Nor are you going to change mine that poor strokes hold no credit to the bowler, ever, whatever his economy-rate or the scoring-rate.
So the best thing will be if we just agree to disagree?








(fat chance)

 

[Swervy]

i am more than happy to agree to disagree...of course you are right Richard, it does depend on what you value as being important in the game,I have a different perspective on the game from,doesnt make anyone of us wrong...and i have enjoyed the debate

 

[marc71178]

That's because you both stick determinedly to the theorem that batsmen are invariably bothered by the scoring-rate being slow when they should not be because it doesn't matter.

No, because you've now introduced another strand - batsmen all play badly against McGrath and Pollock but well against other bowlers such as Vaas - and are using that as the reason for the disparity in records.

 

[Richard]

Well what did you assume I was saying all along?
I always said pressure is in the mind of the batsmen, and personally it strikes me that they're far more pressurised by the fact that the bowler they're facing is called Pollock or McGrath than the slowness of the scoring-rate - because when the bowler they're facing is called Vaas or Willoughby, for instance, history shows that poor strokes are played with much less regularity.
And I never said batsmen all play badly against Pollock and McGrath - if so then no-one would ever score a fifty against South Africa or Australia - but, yet again I simply point to the fact that history shows that many, many have done so.
Far more than have done against other bowlers of approximately equal accuracy.

 

[Craig]

No, because you've now introduced another strand - batsmen all play badly against McGrath and Pollock but well against other bowlers such as Vaas - and are using that as the reason for the disparity in records.

Personally as a batsmen I couldnt care less about a bowlers record if I were a batsman at Test level.

 

[Richard]

You think that now, Craig - let me assure you, if you were in the respective position, it'd not quite be that easy!
Anyway, just because you can think clearly doesn't mean Test-class batsmen can. It's amazing how much of a part the mind can play if you let it.

 

[tooextracool]

A couple of examples are the New Zealand series of 1994\95, the Pakistan Tests in 1995\96 and two of the three Tests in Sri Lanka against Australia in 1999\2000.

umm richard i said outside the sub continent!!