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Best ever medium pacer?

Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
silentstriker said:
But when I think of 'fast', I think of being able to hustle out International quality batsmen with pace alone
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Uh, uh...

Seriously, how often to you see top-class batsmen simply beaten for pace - late on a stroke simply because of the speed of the delivery.

Almost never.

I can honestly only think of one occasion in my cricket-watching time that I've seen a genuine batsman lose his wicket by being beaten purely and simply by pace - this game here.

And this is completely different to being beaten by change of pace, as many people were by Anderson Roberts' quicker one and many people's slower ones.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Richard said:
Uh, uh...

Seriously, how often to you see top-class batsmen simply beaten for pace - late on a stroke simply because of the speed of the delivery.

Almost never.

I can honestly only think of one occasion in my cricket-watching time that I've seen a genuine batsman lose his wicket by being beaten purely and simply by pace - this game here.

And this is completely different to being beaten by change of pace, as many people were by Anderson Roberts' quicker one and many people's slower ones.
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Actually, when Akhtar or Lee are bowling at their fastest, a lot of their wickets are because a batsmen doesn't have the time to pick the right stroke. And that sets them up for the slower ball too.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Haha, nice way of spinning it there... you always have the chance of picking the right stroke if the ball isn't straight, because you always have the opportunity of leaving it.

Certainly, bowling a few straight, short deliveries at 92mph sets a batsman up for the slower-ball, but if you can't bowl a good, well-disguised, well-pitched slower-ball that's no use either. Even then, it doesn't happen especially often.

Only time a bowler can get a wicket purely through pace is if a batsman misses a straight ball which is of little different pace to previous ones by virtue of the fact that he didn't get his bat down in time. Or, very occasionally, if he gets gloved or spliced by a short one that bounces evenly and goes up in the air to a fielder.

But both of these are once-in-a-blue-moon occurrances to top-class batsmen.
 
Neil Pickup

Neil Pickup

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aussie tragic said:
Just for info, Wilkpedia definition of pace is:

Fast: 90 + mph ---- 145 + kmh
Fast-medium: 80 to 89 mph ---- 129 to 145 kmh
Medium-fast: 70 to 79 mph ---- 113 to 129 kmh
Medium: 60 to 69 mph ---- 97 to 113 kmh
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That needs editing. Badly. Because that even classes me as medium and I've spent the afternoon being mullered around Tiverton by a 12 year old.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
All the labels seem fairly arbitrarily applied I'd say. Sky has Flintoff & McGrath both down as Fast Medium & Fred's appreciably faster than the great man.

Just out of interest, when was the last time a genuine medium pacer (as opposed to medium fast) was selected as a specialist bowler for one of the 8 major test nations? Maybe Bicknell when he came back v SA in 2003?
 
PhoenixFire

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Really??

McGrath is either medium or medium fast now, Vaas is defiently medium and Pollock is medium or medium fast in my books. Kallis is fast, he got 150kph yesterday.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
I'd still classify Kallis as a fast medium, because most of the time he bowls at a slower pace and relies on swing to get him his wickets.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
shortpitched713 said:
I'd still classify Kallis as a fast medium, because most of the time he bowls at a slower pace and relies on swing to get him his wickets.
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Actually I think Kallis is bowling quicker than he has for 4 or 5 years just now, if the speed guns from the Indian & Pakistani series are be believed. It does make me wonder if some of his perceived reluctance to bowl was in fact due to his not being fit to do so, I think he had back probs for a while, hasn't he? That being the case I (& others) probably owe him an apology.

Still a selfish batsman tho. :p
 
DCC_legend

DCC_legend

International Regular
John Lewis
Glenn McGrath
Chaminda Vaas
Farvees Maharoof
the pakistani guy whos a bit like Farveez, cant remember his name
 
Neil Pickup

Neil Pickup

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BoyBrumby said:
All the labels seem fairly arbitrarily applied I'd say. Sky has Flintoff & McGrath both down as Fast Medium & Fred's appreciably faster than the great man.

Just out of interest, when was the last time a genuine medium pacer (as opposed to medium fast) was selected as a specialist bowler for one of the 8 major test nations? Maybe Bicknell when he came back v SA in 2003?
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Pathan count?
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
BoyBrumby said:
All the labels seem fairly arbitrarily applied I'd say. Sky has Flintoff & McGrath both down as Fast Medium & Fred's appreciably faster than the great man.

Just out of interest, when was the last time a genuine medium pacer (as opposed to medium fast) was selected as a specialist bowler for one of the 8 major test nations? Maybe Bicknell when he came back v SA in 2003?
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Bryan Strang (in the days when Zim were one of the 9 major Test nations).

Even Bicknell was still occasionally hitting 77-78mph in 2003.

Mostly, bowling at out-and-out medium-pace (which I'd define as 65-75, loosely anyway) just doesn't cut the mustard in Tests.

You need to be medium-fast or fast-medium to get the job done. Otherwise the batsmen just have too much time. Except, maybe, on a WACA wicket.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Richard said:
Given that of late he'd never have been anywhere near the side but for his skill with the bat I'd say no.

What sort of speeds has he been bowling at lately? He still seemed quicker than Bicknell at The Oval.
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Around 77-78mph by the end. He was around 83-85 before, so its quite the loss of pace for a guy who is 22 years old.
 
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