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Battle of the Test Bowling

silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
archie mac said:
One was against a side needing only 85 for victory, which lauched the Ashes tradition, the other against a side that was defeated 5-0 and were lucky to come that close.

I wanted to pick an innings to replace that I had watched, a lot of those on the list I did not witness :)

PS if it does make the list it was 7/44
Click to expand...

Good enough. I will add it. Can you give cricinfo link for it please?
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
All right, here are all 64 innings, ranked in order.

JC Laker 10 for 53/9 for 37 Eng Aus Old Trafford 1956
A Kumble 10 for 74 Ind Pak Delhi 1998-99
M Muralitharan 9/51 Sri Lanka v Zimbabwe at Kandy, 2nd Test, 2001/02
RJ Hadlee 9 for 52 NZ Aus Brisbane 1985-86
Abdul Qadir 9 for 56 Pak Eng Lahore 1987-88
DE Malcolm 9 for 57 Eng SA The Oval 1994
M Muralitharan 9 for 65 SL Eng The Oval 1998
Kapil's 9/83 @ Ahmedabad
Sarfraz Nawaz 9 for 86 Pak Aus Melbourne 1978-79
HJ Tayfield 9 for 113 SA Eng Johannesburg 1956-577
AA Mailey 9 for 121 Aus Eng Melbourne 1920-21
Glenn McGrath, 8/24 vs Pakistan, WACA 2004
LR Gibbs 8 for 38 WI Ind Bridgetown 1961-62
RGD Willis 8 for 43 Eng Aus Headingley 1981
H Verity 8 for 43 Eng Aus Lord's 1934
Ambrose 8-45 v England Barbados April 1990
RAL Massie 8 for 53 Aus Eng Lord's 1972
AA Mallett 8 for 59 Aus Pak Adelaide 1972-73
Imran Khan 8 for 60 Pak Ind Karachi 1982-83
Hirwani 8-61 vs West Indies, Madras January 1988
L Klusener 8 for 64 SA Ind Kolkata 1996-97
GD McKenzie 8 for 71 Aus WI Melbourne 1968-69
Harbhajan Singh 8 for 84 Ind Aus Chennai 2000-01
Kapil Dev 8/85
Srinath's 8/86 @ Kolkata
AW Greig 8 for 86 Eng WI Port of Spain 1973-74
Michael Holding, 8/92 vs England, The Oval 1976
JC White 8 for 126 Eng Aus Adelaide 1928-29
Anil Kumble, 8/141 vs Australia, SCG 2004
Steve Harmison, 7/12 vs West Indies, Sabina Park 2004
Marshall 7/22 at Old Trafford
Shane Warne, 7/23 vs Pakistan, GABBA 1994
Curtley Ambrose, 7/25 vs Australia, WACA 1993
JA Snow 7 for 40 Eng Aus Sydney 1970-71
Imran 7-40 vs Eng 87
Spofforth 7/44
IW Johnson 7 for 44 Aus WI Georgetown 1954-55
Border 7-46 vs WI, Sydney, January 1989
PCR Tufnell 7 for 47 Eng NZ Christchurch 1991-92
IT Botham 7 for 48 Eng Ind Bombay 1979-80
Kumble 7/48
Iqbal Qasim 7-49 vs Aus 1980
Shane Warne, 7/52 vs West Indies, MCG 1992
WJ O'Reilly 7 for 54 Aus Eng Trent Bridge 1934
KR Miller 7 for 60 Aus Eng Brisbane 1946-47
Shane Warne, 7/56 vs South Africa, SCG 1994
Dennis Lillee, 7/83 vs West Indies, MCG 1981
Michael Clarke, 6/9 vs India, Mumbai 2004
Qadir 6-16 vs WI 1986
Srinath's 6 for 21 Vs. SA
Ambrose 6-24 v England Trinidad March 1994
Dennis Lillee, 6/26 vs England, MCG 1977
PS de Villiers 6 for 43 SA Aus Sydney 1993-94
Simon Jones, 6/53 vs Australia, Old Trafford 2005
Wasim 6-62 vs Aus 1989
NG Cowans 6 for 77 Eng Aus Melbourne 1982-83
Shane Warne, 6/86 vs South Africa, Kingsmead 2006
Botham 5-11 vs Australia Birmingham August 1981
Shoaib 5-21 vs Aus 2002
Waqar 5-22 vs NZl 1992
Allan Donald, 5/36 vs Australia, Supersport Park 1997
Glenn McGrath, 5/53 vs England, Lords 2005
Jeff Thomson, 5/62 vs West Indies, MCG 1975
Flintoff 5-78 at The Oval 2005

This is pretty much your last chance guys. When I wake up tomorrow, I will make any final changes and start the first battle. Make sure you post the innings you nominate, the innings you want to replace, and why your innings deserves to replace the other innings.
 
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H

Hugh

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
silentstriker said:
Yea, I will combine them. It does seem odd to have two separate for the same match. So Kumble can get in on it too. The first battle will be posted tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Not that again. Why combine two bowling performances ? If you're doing so, you might as well scrap the tournament. There is no way any other single performance is going to beat a 19/90.
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Gutted at the seeding system LOL

For all those wanting Fred's 5-78 out, jog on! A mammoth spell, excellent bowling, took out the Australian top order, with Hoggard's help, in the space of about 100 runs, and in my view it was that spell on Sunday morning from Flintoff that was just as important to us winning The Ashes as Pietersen's 158. We hadn't won the Ashes for 18 years, in case you didn't know, and Flintoff put in one of the greatest spells of the last 10-15 years to give us one hand on them.
 
H

Hugh

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
GeraintIsMyHero said:
Gutted at the seeding system LOL

For all those wanting Fred's 5-78 out, jog on! A mammoth spell, excellent bowling, took out the Australian top order, with Hoggard's help, in the space of about 100 runs, and in my view it was that spell on Sunday morning from Flintoff that was just as important to us winning The Ashes as Pietersen's 158. We hadn't won the Ashes for 18 years, in case you didn't know, and Flintoff put in one of the greatest spells of the last 10-15 years to give us one hand on them.
Click to expand...
Flintoff's spell was very good mate, no doubt, but not top 64 material.
Lets look at this objectively,

Flintoff (5/78): A mammoth spell, excellent bowling, took out the Australian top order, with Hoggard's help, in the space of about 100 runs.
Kumble (7/48) :18 overs, excellent bowling, took out the Australian top order, with no help, in the space of about 46 runs.

England hadn't won the Ashes in 18 years ( thanks for the information, I would never have known). India were trying to keep Australia from a series win there for the first time in 36 (?) years.

As for "Flintoff put in one of the greatest spells of the last 10-15 years to give us one hand on them", I totally agree, however England's mediocrity against Australia over 18 years can hardly be a factor in assessing this spell. His spell was good, but just not as good as the 7/48. This is not a crusade against the 5/78, this is an attempt at getting a deserving spell into the list, and therefore removing one from it to make room. The 5/78 ending up as the 65th best bowling performance rather than the 64th best one is not a dishonour. If not the 5/78, which other performance do you suggest be knocked out ?
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
As a biased Englishman, I'll be fair. I would rank Flintoff's 5-78 over Simon Jones' 6-53 at OT because of the significance of the spell, and the batsmen dismissed, though admittedly Jones' spell did include the magic ball to Clarke.

isn't Kumble's 7-48 on the list anyway?
 
Magrat Garlick

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
Hugh said:
If not the 5/78, which other performance do you suggest be knocked out ?
Click to expand...
On SS' latest list, both Kumble and Fred is on, which should make us all happy. :D (it's mainly because Laker's two have been merged, which I don't like.)

Food for thought:

Jasubhai Patel 9/69 v Australia, Kanpur, 1959-60
http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat...59-60/AUS_IN_IND/AUS_IND_T2_19-24DEC1959.html

ought to be on there somewhere. I'd suggest taking out Johnson 7/44 or Warne 6/86 (sure, fine effort, but he struggled to get out both Boje and Nel on a fifth-day wicket).
 
H

Hugh

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
GeraintIsMyHero said:
As a biased Englishman, I'll be fair. I would rank Flintoff's 5-78 over Simon Jones' 6-53 at OT because of the significance of the spell, and the batsmen dismissed, though admittedly Jones' spell did include the magic ball to Clarke.

isn't Kumble's 7-48 on the list anyway?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is. But as Samuel_Vimes said, it was the result of the merging of the two Laker innings', which is not desirable.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
JC Laker 10 for 53 Eng Aus Old Trafford 1956
A Kumble 10 for 74 Ind Pak Delhi 1998-99
JC Laker 9/37 Eng Aus Old Trafford 1956
M Muralitharan 9/51 Sri Lanka v Zimbabwe at Kandy, 2nd Test, 2001/02
RJ Hadlee 9 for 52 NZ Aus Brisbane 1985-86
Abdul Qadir 9 for 56 Pak Eng Lahore 1987-88
DE Malcolm 9 for 57 Eng SA The Oval 1994
M Muralitharan 9 for 65 SL Eng The Oval 1998
Jasubhai Patel 9/69 v Australia, Kanpur, 1959-60
Kapil's 9/83 @ Ahmedabad
Sarfraz Nawaz 9 for 86 Pak Aus Melbourne 1978-79
HJ Tayfield 9 for 113 SA Eng Johannesburg 1956-577
AA Mailey 9 for 121 Aus Eng Melbourne 1920-21
Glenn McGrath, 8/24 vs Pakistan, WACA 2004
LR Gibbs 8 for 38 WI Ind Bridgetown 1961-62
RGD Willis 8 for 43 Eng Aus Headingley 1981
H Verity 8 for 43 Eng Aus Lord's 1934
Ambrose 8-45 v England Barbados April 1990
RAL Massie 8 for 53 Aus Eng Lord's 1972
AA Mallett 8 for 59 Aus Pak Adelaide 1972-73
Imran Khan 8 for 60 Pak Ind Karachi 1982-83
Hirwani 8-61 vs West Indies, Madras January 1988
L Klusener 8 for 64 SA Ind Kolkata 1996-97
GD McKenzie 8 for 71 Aus WI Melbourne 1968-69
Harbhajan Singh 8 for 84 Ind Aus Chennai 2000-01
Kapil Dev 8/85
Srinath's 8/86 @ Kolkata
AW Greig 8 for 86 Eng WI Port of Spain 1973-74
Michael Holding, 8/92 vs England, The Oval 1976
JC White 8 for 126 Eng Aus Adelaide 1928-29
Anil Kumble, 8/141 vs Australia, SCG 2004
Steve Harmison, 7/12 vs West Indies, Sabina Park 2004
Marshall 7/22 at Old Trafford
Shane Warne, 7/23 vs Pakistan, GABBA 1994
Curtley Ambrose, 7/25 vs Australia, WACA 1993
JA Snow 7 for 40 Eng Aus Sydney 1970-71
Imran 7-40 vs Eng 87
Spofforth 7/44
Border 7-46 vs WI, Sydney, January 1989
PCR Tufnell 7 for 47 Eng NZ Christchurch 1991-92
IT Botham 7 for 48 Eng Ind Bombay 1979-80
Kumble 7/48
Iqbal Qasim 7-49 vs Aus 1980
Shane Warne, 7/52 vs West Indies, MCG 1992
WJ O'Reilly 7 for 54 Aus Eng Trent Bridge 1934
KR Miller 7 for 60 Aus Eng Brisbane 1946-47
Shane Warne, 7/56 vs South Africa, SCG 1994
Dennis Lillee, 7/83 vs West Indies, MCG 1981
Michael Clarke, 6/9 vs India, Mumbai 2004
Qadir 6-16 vs WI 1986
Srinath's 6 for 21 Vs. SA
Ambrose 6-24 v England Trinidad March 1994
Dennis Lillee, 6/26 vs England, MCG 1977
PS de Villiers 6 for 43 SA Aus Sydney 1993-94
Simon Jones, 6/53 vs Australia, Old Trafford 2005
Wasim 6-62 vs Aus 1989
NG Cowans 6 for 77 Eng Aus Melbourne 1982-83
Botham 5-11 vs Australia Birmingham August 1981
Shoaib 5-21 vs Aus 2002
Waqar 5-22 vs NZl 1992
Allan Donald, 5/36 vs Australia, Supersport Park 1997
Glenn McGrath, 5/53 vs England, Lords 2005
Jeff Thomson, 5/62 vs West Indies, MCG 1975
Flintoff 5-78 at The Oval 2005


All right, no more changes. If you don't like it...too bad. I feel we have everyone that has a decent shot at winning.
 
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GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I know I shouldn't, and I know which one's the better exhibition of bowling

But what the hell

Flintoff - for winning us those Ashes, bowling like a robot, and making the Aussies look like idiots :)
 
H

Hugh

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Laker by a distance.

EDIT: The 10fer was in the second innings, not the first as I thought. Still, a perfect 10..
 
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FaaipDeOiad

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
The Flintoff spell wasn't the best spell of that series, by some distance imo. It was a very good spell, but it was in darkness, against batsmen looking for quick runs and a declaration, with the ball moving everywhere under the cloud cover. Certainly worthy of praise, but not worthy of the best 64 of all time.

Laker for me.
 
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