Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[S.Kennedy]

It is all a bit embarrassing really, especially for a country which prides itself on its blokeyness.

 

[Borges]

Ashwin trying hard to sound oh-so-smart and talking gibberish in the process.

These days, his talking is not much better than his bowling.

 

[Stefan9]

What's Sonny Bill up to?

Injured atm, so available...

 

[Furball]

Yeah I must say, as much as I felt for Smith during his statement, I didn't believe him for a second when he was asked hand on heart if this is the first time tampering had happened under his watch. Does anyone actually believe him on that point?

It depends on what Smith is defining as tampering.

If he meant 'this is the first time we' ve ever brought a foreign object on the field with the specific intent to use it to alter the ball's condition' then yes, I believe him.

This is the problem with the ball tampering laws as they stand. There is a lot of stuff that goes on which by the letter of the law is also technically ball tampering, but isn't policed. There seems to be an unwritten rule where the umpires know teams are working on the ball contrary to how the rules are written but will turn a blind eye as long as the fielding side is being subtle with it and not doing dumb **** like bringing sand paper on the field or mistaking the ball for an apple and trying to take a bite out of it.

 

[StephenZA]

It depends on what Smith is defining as tampering.

If he meant 'this is the first time we' ve ever brought a foreign object on the field with the specific intent to use it to alter the ball's condition' then yes, I believe him.

This is the problem with the ball tampering laws as they stand. There is a lot of stuff that goes on which by the letter of the law is also technically ball tampering, but isn't policed. There seems to be an unwritten rule where the umpires know teams are working on the ball contrary to how the rules are written but will turn a blind eye as long as the fielding side is being subtle with it and not doing dumb **** like bringing sand paper on the field or mistaking the ball for an apple and trying to take a bite out of it.

It will be interesting to see what the ICC does, the apparent review at least needs to clearly define some lines and specifics and increase the sanctions available. And determine if the umpires continue to turn a blind eye to some of the types of ball tampering?

 

[social]

It will be interesting to see what the ICC does, the apparent review at least needs to clearly define some lines and specifics and increase the sanctions available. And determine if the umpires continue to turn a blind eye to some of the types of ball tampering?

If anything, it will be a token gesture

Just as this a CA issue, they’ll leave it up to individual boards to hand out bigger penalties in the future rather than running the risk of political fallout

 

[MagicPoopShovel]

A guy with a Sonny Bill mask on would do

Warner to sandpaper some onions and stick em under his arm pits for a Logie winning performance tomorrow

 

[MagicPoopShovel]

I would like to see tampering upgraded to a higher offence and an increase in the minimum ban for the offending player and a default ban for the captain

But it has to be a sliding scale I think

A mint vs Sandpaper / foreign Object

 

[social]

I would like to see tampering upgraded to a higher offence and an increase in the minimum ban for the offending player and a default ban for the captain

But it has to be a sliding scale I think

A mint vs Sandpaper / foreign Object

Main problems are the ball and pitches

There’s simply too big an imbalance between bat & ball so teams are “forced” to try stuff to make anything happen

 

[Victor Ian]

First thing they should do is offer confidential amnesty to try and get players to tell all of the methods employed and the effects. Is mints really less than gauging? Depends on the result. I haven't played for over 20 years but it seems the sugary sweets can either enhance shine or provide stickiness for dirt and grass clippings to create roughness. Does the later really work? Dunno. Just going on what I read.

 

[Victor Ian]

Main problems are the ball and pitches

There’s simply too big an imbalance between bat & ball so teams are “forced” to try stuff to make anything happen

Yep. I'd guess reverse is the only thing to have stopped batting averages really blowing out this century. They have to consider this from a bowlers perspective for once.

 

[MagicPoopShovel]

Agree.. it just seems near impossible we could have a standardised approach to pitches that would address the imbalance.

Drop in pitches and the need to makes game last longer and host nation requirements makes it quite hard I guess to have decent pitches that help bowlers more

I think with better pitches we would definitely see a reduction in the need to “try” stuff

 

[Borges]

There’s simply too big an imbalance between bat & ball so teams are “forced” to try stuff to make anything happen

There are fewer drawn games these days than in the old days where there was supposed to be better balance between bat and ball.
Don't know if it is right to attribute all of that to ball tampering.

 

[Starfighter]

There are fewer drawn games these days than in the old days where there was supposed to be better balance between bat and ball.
Don't know if it is right to attribute all of that to ball tampering.

Poor defensive techniques and inability to arrest collapses. Everyone tries to hit their way out of trouble, almost no one can grind it out.

 

[MagicPoopShovel]

“Another thing bowlers started to notice was that the balls that did the most tended to have a velvety texture on the rough side, against the grain of the leather. Often, the closer this "fuzz" was to the seam, the more prodigious the reverse, because when the ball is presented ideally, that is the part in contact with the air. Similarly, simply shining the "face" of the ball did little - it is the rim just to the side of the seam that needs polishing.”


“Information such as a breakdown of how long on average it takes for different red balls around the world to start reversing (30 overs for Dukes, 40 to 50 for the Kookaburra, and 10 to 15 for the SG used in India).”

“Methods to gain reverse:

- Standard: Taking care of the ball as they would in England - economical with saliva, constant polishing, trying to keep one side as pristine as possible and wait.

- Loading: Making the shiny side heavier.

- Dry shining: Ensuring no moisture gets onto the ball, thus essentially buffing one side into a shiny state, with minimal moisture, and leaving the other side unattended.”

Vithushan Ehantharajah on how reverse swing gained acceptance in England - ESPN


Trying to understand the need to rough up the ball;

Is it to purely get it to a rough state by force so the ball starts reversing early?

Cuz based on this article if you did standard ball polishing and let the ball wear on its own reverse would come at some stage anyway..

 

[social]

There are fewer drawn games these days than in the old days where there was supposed to be better balance between bat and ball.
Don't know if it is right to attribute all of that to ball tampering.

Batting techniques and more aggressive attitude

Teams are far less willing to tough it out these days and many don’t have the technique to do so anyway in foreign conditions

It’s an absolute joke that so many teams get bowled out in Australia when you consider how flat the decks are. Ooooh, it’s a bouncer! Get me outta here

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Normally I'd feel bad about how lobsided this series got. But after lehmanns comments about the "disgusting" crowd I just have not sympathy. I hope the Proteas and the crowd crushes them. That's how all our tours pretty 2008 felt like vs the Aussies and the crowds.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I find it a bit strange that he had a family there if you buy into the this wierd siege mentality defence that this article is making. Run with the thought that bringing the wife into it is so hurtful as to be unacceptable regardless of how Warner behaved. Fine, maybe the wife (and kids, although I'm not sure what the article is referring to) was deeply distressed. Why meet him at the airport then? Either the damage suffered by them is severe enough that he should want to protect them from the media and just meet them half an hour later, or he's using them as an emotional shield.

This isn't primarily a critique of Warner or his wife btw. It's natural for a family to want to pull together, whether through missing each other normally, providing emotional support in a tough time, or through a calculated move to garner sympathy and maximise the odds of protecting the income of the breadwinner, this being more important than shielding the family from the media.

It's more a critique of an article opening with a picture of his family taken paparazzi style at an emotional time and moralising about how henious it is to have brought them into this debacle. It's the first time I've ever seen his kids brought into anything in a way they should be aware of. Media are scum, especially when they are pretending otherwise.

I thought that Candice Warner was over in South Africa at the time?

 

[Bolo]

I thought that Candice Warner was over in South Africa at the time?

Not sure. It doesn't affect my analysis in any way though.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Not sure. It doesn't affect my analysis in any way though.

I was just referring to this bit...

Why meet him at the airport then? Either the damage suffered by them is severe enough that he should want to protect them from the media and just meet them half an hour later, or he's using them as an emotional shield.

They have to get off the plane together, he's not going to go by himself and then leave her to walk out later.