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Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

Larwood's_boots

U19 Debutant
Smith and Warner to be relieved of the captaincy and vice-captaincy and banned for the remainder of the Series.

Lehmann to be relieved of his position as coach.

That's as far as I would go.

Talk of life bans is ridiculous.

Ball-tampering is only a Level 2 offence (Level 4 being the worst) in the international rules of the game.
Lehamnn seems to have avoided any flak from this thus far, bloody laughable. The problem is that there's no shades of grey in terms of what constitutes ball tampering as an offense, we kind of went over this earlier on the thread but most agree that this feels a lot worse than most of the previous high profile cases.
 

MagicPoopShovel

U19 12th Man
It's kind of ridiculous that this is a level 2 offense for the ICC and all it entails is maybe a fine and maybe a 1 match ban. I mean do they want to stop it or are kind of ok with it happening. Cuz that what it sounds like.

Surely certain things need to have a zero tolerance policy like fixing and ball tampering.

I would argue tampering should be a non negotiable 5-10 match ban for the captain and the player (s) involved. Maybe more.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Is it just me, or is James Sutherland's apology worded more to "we're sorry people found out" rather than "we're sorry we cheated"?
 

Larwood's_boots

U19 Debutant
I'm trying to put this into some context in my head. Is this ball tampering as bad as Warnes diuretics? He copped a year.....is this a similar level violation?

Look as much as I'm enjoying it all and do think there is a some massive karma going on, I just don't see it as being "that" bad to warrant lengthy bans. And if Bancroft, Smith and Warner do cop some serious punishment I'll be absolutely spewing if Lehman escapes unscathed.
But if they all defend Lehmann then I don't know what you do. In terms of the Warne thing it depends on what or who you believe, certainly not as bad as match or even spot fixing though for me.
 

vicleggie

State Vice-Captain
Smith should Probably be ineligible for captain or vc for life, and get a few tests ban from playing- maybe a year. The public continue to savage him. Think that may be the only thing that does justice in their eyes
 

howardj

International Coach
As I say, it's ball tampering is only a Level 2 offence (4 being the worst)

Sacking Smith and Warner from their leadership roles (never to return) as well as sending them both home from the current Series, and sacking Boof for the overall culture he's overseen, is as far as I think they should go.
 

Larwood's_boots

U19 Debutant
It's kind of ridiculous that this is a level 2 offense for the ICC and all it entails is maybe a fine and maybe a 1 match ban. I mean do they want to stop it or are kind of ok with it happening. Cuz that what it sounds like.

Surely certain things need to have a zero tolerance policy like fixing and ball tampering.

I would argue tampering should be a non negotiable 5-10 match ban for the captain and the player (s) involved. Maybe more.
Again though, 5 to 10 seems a little harsh for someone having a little pick at the seam, whereas it also seems maybe lenient for this. If it were up to me i'd always punish any form of it, but maybe would add levels based on how much effort went into it.
 

vicleggie

State Vice-Captain
As I say, it's ball tampering is only a Level 2 offence (4 being the worst)

Sacking Smith and Warner from their leadership roles (never to return) as well as sending them both home from the current Series, and sacking Boof for the overall culture he's overseen, is as far as I think they should go.
I think Smith should miss half the tests this year at least. Making a rookie player do his cheating is awful
 

MagicPoopShovel

U19 12th Man
Again though, 5 to 10 seems a little harsh for someone having a little pick at the seam, whereas it also seems maybe lenient for this. If it were up to me i'd always punish any form of it, but maybe would add levels based on how much effort went into it.
Yea I suppose its a sliding scale.

Nail and mint type of stuff on the lower end

Sand paper , bottle tops on the higher end type of thing.
 

howardj

International Coach
I think Smith should miss half the tests this year at least. Making a rookie player do his cheating is awful
We weren't there, but my guess is they didn't make him do it, rather he would have volunteered - with the aim of ingratiating himself with the leaders
 

vicleggie

State Vice-Captain
We weren't there, but my guess is they didn't make him do it, rather he would have volunteered - with the aim of ingratiating himself with the leaders
But Smith should have protected him from himself. What type of culture is that?
 

howardj

International Coach
I agree Vic

Also, don't mind your idea of a six month ban, and perhaps starting afresh next home Summer.
 

MagicPoopShovel

U19 12th Man
All said, I don't think the team really thought they would cop this much from the media and the public. So hopefully this is a real eye opener for them in terms of how they are actually perceived. They certainly appeared to be living in a bit of a bubble with Smith saying he still thinks he's the right man etc.

Hopefully this is a good moment to reflect on for the ICC too in terms of how they handle this and their demerit/punishment system. But I suspect as always they will do the bare minimum and defer to boards to sort out stricter penalties.
 

Larwood's_boots

U19 Debutant
All said, I don't think the team really thought they would cop this much from the media and the public. So hopefully this is a real eye opener for them in terms of how they are actually perceived. They certainly appeared to be living in a bit of a bubble with Smith saying he still thinks he's the right man etc.

Hopefully this is a good moment to reflect on for the ICC too in terms of how they handle this and their demerit/punishment system. But I suspect as always they will do the bare minimum and defer to boards to sort out stricter penalties.
To even try it knowing how many camera are on you and how the series has gone thus far speaks of a level of arrogance so off the charts it's mind boggling. Has to be a serious humbling!
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
To even try it knowing how many camera are on you and how the series has gone thus far speaks of a level of arrogance so off the charts it's mind boggling. Has to be a serious humbling!
The fact that Bancroft admitted to feeling anxious "only" because of the cameras speaks volumes by itself. So no cameras and they'd be carrying on without remorse, is it? That press conference couldn't have gone any worse.
 

Hotpumpingman

Cricket Spectator
Snap out of it Australia sth Africa ball tampers wear sunny bill mask's make disgusting comments about Warners wife but we make a mistake and all the big noter's hit the press even our two faced liar of a prime minister wants publicity we gave sth Africa what it deserved but in modern Australia its kick people when they are down and Shane warne biggest embarrassment in Australian cricket history and the rest should shut up wake up and stick by our team
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
He refused to say the word cheated when prompted. I guess you can't really expect him to say that.

Turnbull went to town though.
Yes but as I noted previously, anyone who follows Australian politics knows no one listens to Turnbull in the first place
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I think Smith should miss half the tests this year at least. Making a rookie player do his cheating is awful
Who polishes/ roughs up the ball often depends on where they’re fielding. I haven’t seen the footage but if Bancroft is at mid off or mid on it makes sense they’d get him to do it.
 

howardj

International Coach
Hotpumpingman, that's a hard hitting first post

But I think you're misreading the mood of the Australian public

Nobody (sensible) is saying life bans, but Lehmann, Smith, and Warner need to be held to account.
 

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