Australia name Chappell-Hadlee Trophy squad

[bryce]

i get my averages from howstat, regardless it is irrelevant as to which average is right, because as i said earlier ER is what matters most in ODIs and hogg's ER is significantly better than clarkes.

baffling why you brought averages up then

hypothetical question, i would be interested to know which bowler you would pick based purely on ODI bowling statistics and not having any previous knowledge at all about the players in question,

Prosper Utseya: Average:147.00, RPO:3.98
Ottis Gibson: Average:18.26, RPO:5.04

 

[age_master]

i get my averages from howstat, regardless it is irrelevant as to which average is right, because as i said earlier ER is what matters most in ODIs and hogg's ER is significantly better than clarkes.

lol, no you were wrong


SR vs ER has been had, and besides that clarke is a batsman that bowls and hogg is a bowler that bats.

 

[marc71178]

IMO, it's pointless to compare the stats of Hogg and Clarke, because Hogg bowls in every condition, but Clarke is only asked to in helpful conditions.

 

[Richard]

It helps you win.

Well observed.
Pursuit of victory is not always coherent with playing the best-looking cricket.

 

[Richard]

baffling why you brought averages up then

hypothetical question, i would be interested to know which bowler you would pick based purely on ODI bowling statistics and not having any previous knowledge at all about the players in question,

Prosper Utseya: Average:147.00, RPO:3.98
Ottis Gibson: Average:18.26, RPO:5.04

Forget Gibson, but Utseya is every bit worth his economy-rate IMO (from the 2 matches I've seen of him), he's a very fine one-day bowler indeed. Yet another good performance today, incidentally, after the seamers get smashed around as per usual he comes on and slows 7.5-an-over to get 10-35.

 

[marc71178]

However he yet again failed to take a wicket, and seeing as the pressure was off the batsmen after the opening salvo, I wonder how good he really is for the team?

 

[bryce]

However he yet again failed to take a wicket, and seeing as the pressure was off the batsmen after the opening salvo, I wonder how good he really is for the team?

that's exactly the way i see it

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Forget Gibson, but Utseya is every bit worth his economy-rate IMO (from the 2 matches I've seen of him), he's a very fine one-day bowler indeed. Yet another good performance today, incidentally, after the seamers get smashed around as per usual he comes on and slows 7.5-an-over to get 10-35.

Gibson is himself a good cricketer, as he showed in CC this year. Utseya is a decent economical bowler, but not sure I'd call him world class, as he seems to be allergic to wicket-taking.

 

[Richard]

However he yet again failed to take a wicket, and seeing as the pressure was off the batsmen after the opening salvo, I wonder how good he really is for the team?

Better than someone who's being smashed for 5.5+-an-over and taking a few meaningless wickets here and there.

 

[Richard]

Gibson is himself a good cricketer, as he showed in CC this year. Utseya is a decent economical bowler, but not sure I'd call him world class, as he seems to be allergic to wicket-taking.

It is incredible that he can take so few wickets - nonetheless there are few bowlers around ATM capable of bowling with his economy-rate.
Gibson is a good cricketer, yes, but I'm sure you'd not deny he's just a little flattered by his ODI-bowling-average.

 

[tooextracool]

baffling why you brought averages up then

hypothetical question, i would be interested to know which bowler you would pick based purely on ODI bowling statistics and not having any previous knowledge at all about the players in question,

Prosper Utseya: Average:147.00, RPO:3.98
Ottis Gibson: Average:18.26, RPO:5.04

utseya
as far as bringing up averages is concerned, you might note that i didnt bring up the averages at all, someone else suggested that i shouldnt look at ER solely.
of course there isnt a difference of 120 odd in the averages between clarke/symonds vs hogg, and hogg has a considerably better ER, which is far more important than the average in ODIs.

 

[tooextracool]

lol, no you were wrong .

hardly, my sources(howstat) was wrong. obviously means that i need to change my sources.

SR vs ER has been had, and besides that clarke is a batsman that bowls and hogg is a bowler that bats.

and where have i contested clarke's position with hoggs? hogg plays as 4th bowler on slower wickets, simple as that.

 

[bryce]

Better than someone who's being smashed for 5.5+-an-over and taking a few meaningless wickets here and there.

how do you determine that the wickets are meaningless ?

 

[Richard]

If someone takes a couple of wickets for 55 their average is still going to be under 30 for the innings. Under 30 is a pretty reasonable achievement for a poor bowler
However, the wickets are meaningless if a total of 300+ still results.

 

[bryce]

If someone takes a couple of wickets for 55 their average is still going to be under 30 for the innings. Under 30 is a pretty reasonable achievement for a poor bowler
However, the wickets are meaningless if a total of 300+ still results.

hmmm gibsons average is 18 though ......
no wickets are meaningless, they may seem meaningless in retrospect but at the time of the match every wicket is important and logic says the more wickets you get the less runs will be conceded.

 

[marc71178]

how do you determine that the wickets are meaningless ?

Because wicket-taking doesn't matter in ODI's apparently.

 

[bryce]

yeah, it seems like they think if you had five bowlers who had economy rates of 4.00 and averages over 100, the other team would score 200 despite not losing any wickets.
a good ODI bowling attack has a good balance of strike power and economy.

 

[Richard]

According to marc, it has strike-power, and any bowler with an unacceptably high strike-rate must be immidiately dropped from the team, even if his economy-rate is more than 1-an-over better than the rest of the team.

(Disclaimer - yes, marc, I know you've never said Utseya should be dropped from the Zimbabwe team, but you have said both of the above in isolation from each other)

 

[Richard]

Because wicket-taking doesn't matter in ODI's apparently.

And of course I've said that, haven't I?...
However, no, someone should not be given credit for getting an early wicket with a Long-Hop that failed to piece the field and being skied twice in the late overs off average deliveries that have been previously smashed away.

 

[Richard]

hmmm gibsons average is 18 though ......
no wickets are meaningless, they may seem meaningless in retrospect but at the time of the match every wicket is important and logic says the more wickets you get the less runs will be conceded.

Not neccesarily.
Logic says the least runs conceded will mean the least runs scored.
Even if you're taking wickets you still have to keep the run-rate down.
Personally I think you'll find most people will agree that Gibson is more than a little flattered by his average of 18. I didn't actually comment on the meaningless-wicket saga in relation to him - I was talking about the like of Hondo, Panyangara and Chigumbura.