Australia (1995-2007) Vs. West Indies (1974-1986)?

[Outswinger@Pace]

who was john price?

John Price, the Middlesex and English paceman of the mid-late 60s and early 70s.

Had a very, very long run-up and that's the reason I put him there.

Interestingly, in Sunny Days, Gavaskar mentions that a spell he faced from Price on the 1971 tour was as quick as anything he had encountered uptill then or since then. Considering that the book was released in 1976, Sunny had already faced Lillee, Roberts, John Snow, a very fiery young Holding and Dayle Hadlee.

Make of that statement what ye will....Price was lightning fast when his action clicked, but could never maintain such consistency.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

The majority of fast bowlers should have no problem bowling an over within the average 4 minute requirement - obviously some will be longer and some shorter depending on what happens to the delivery.
The problem with Holding and Co was the leisurely way they strolled back to the start of their run up as if next week would do. I left Lords on one occasion at 7:40pm when they'd finished the required overs and there'd been no rain.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

The majority of fast bowlers should have no problem bowling an over within the average 4 minute requirement - obviously some will be longer and some shorter depending on what happens to the delivery.
The problem with Holding and Co was the leisurely way they strolled back to the start of their run up as if next week would do. I left Lords on one occasion at 7:40pm when they'd finished the required overs and there'd been no rain.

Have you any recollection of Peter Lever bowling an over in seven and a half minutes once? I fail to remember the source where I read it from, but it was an Ashes series. 1972 perhaps!

 

[smash84]

John Price, the Middlesex and English paceman of the mid-late 60s and early 70s.

Had a very, very long run-up and that's the reason I put him there.

Interestingly, in Sunny Days, Gavaskar mentions that a spell he faced from Price on the 1971 tour was as quick as anything he had encountered uptill then or since then. Considering that the book was released in 1976, Sunny had already faced Lillee, Roberts, John Snow, a very fiery young Holding and Dayle Hadlee.

Make of that statement what ye will....Price was lightning fast when his action clicked, but could never maintain such consistency.

Shoaib Akhtar had a terribly long run up. Probably didn't finish his over in 4 mins

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Have you any recollection of Peter Lever bowling an over in seven and a half minutes once? I fail to remember the source where I read it from, but it was an Ashes series. 1972 perhaps!

I dont' recall that, but if he did it deliberately with no extenuating circumstances I would be very surprised.

 

[robelinda]

Bear in mind 8 ball overs for a lot of these mentioned guys careers.

 

[vic_orthdox]

That obviously has a lot to do with the era the two sides played in. Test results were much more common in the Australian era than the Windies. The WI side had to deal with a different style and approach altogether. To Australia's credit, though, they were primarily responsible for the change in attitude and "pushing for a result".

Also, when you talk about draws, the Windies' over rates couldn't have helped themselves either, could it?

EDIT: already brought up.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Comparing opposition over such long periods is useless. For example, for Australia to knock off that side that came over from Pakistan in 1999/2000 was a fantastic effort, especially 3-0, and maybe the highpoint of their time. But then the side that came over in about 2006 (when Asif was on debut, I think) was a much worse side than what many teams the Windies had to offer. Both periods were over such a long time it's hard/impossible/stupid (take your pick) to talk about the relative strength of their opposition.

 

[smash84]

yeah that 1999 side was pretty decent.

 

[stephen]

The 90s was a massively exciting time to watch world cricket. Pretty much every team was good or at least had some really big stars with the ball.

WI
SA
Aus
Pak

all had at least two bowlers who would be considered all time greats throughout that period of time. Even Zimbabwe had Heath Streak, who was quite good.

 

[BlazeDragon]

I'm sorry, but those stats of winning percentage for a 12 year period tell me very little about the makeup of the sides. I would prefer to compare the actual lineups you are talking about. SA for example varied in quality from 95-2007. The SA lineups of 97-98 were very good, while the lineups of 2005-2006 were not IMO.

So, if you are saying Australia faced superior opposition, tell me which lineup are you talking about rather than a narrow arbitrary statistical approach.

Its 13 year period actually and they tell you the overall strength of the side during that time.

What you are saying would apply to WI as well. They faced a stronger Australia at one point just like they faced a weaker Australia one point.

I think Ikki already made some valid posts as to why Pakistan during the Wasim/WaqarAkthar days were stronger than Pakistan of the WI era. And SA were the stronger than Pakistan of the Aus era.

 

[smash84]

errr no..........Pakistan under Imran was an excellent outfit. Towards the end of the 90s Waqar had gone quite downhill and Wasim was also going down (not to that extent). The spin department was similar in 90s we had Saqlain and 80s we had Qadir. Shoaib Akhtar was good at first but **** later on.

 

[Ikki]

errr no..........Pakistan under Imran was an excellent outfit. Towards the end of the 90s Waqar had gone quite downhill and Wasim was also going down (not to that extent). The spin department was similar in 90s we had Saqlain and 80s we had Qadir. Shoaib Akhtar was good at first but **** later on.

We beat you guys in 95/96, not just at the end of the 90s.

 

[smash84]

yes but the mid 90s team did not have Akhtar. Also Saqlain came in towards the latter half of 95 so I am not sure if he was in the team that was beaten 2-1 in Australia in 95

Interestingly in 94 the aussie team had lost a series to Pakistan

 

[Ikki]

yes but the mid 90s team did not have Akhtar. Also Saqlain came in towards the latter half of 95 so I am not sure if he was in the team that was beaten 2-1 in Australia in 95

The attack in 95/96 was Akram, Waqar, Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain. Akhtar was in the series later that decade. But the attack in 95/96 was fantastic.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63697.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63698.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63699.html

Interestingly in 94 the aussie team had lost a series to Pakistan

Which is why most people probably didn't consider them #1 till after they beat WIndies in 95, and then never really looked back.

 

[NasserFan207]

I think its almost impossible to call. I voted west indies out of bias really but I have no idea in reality. Would be amazing to see.

 

[stephen]

yes but the mid 90s team did not have Akhtar. Also Saqlain came in towards the latter half of 95 so I am not sure if he was in the team that was beaten 2-1 in Australia in 95

Interestingly in 94 the aussie team had lost a series to Pakistan

The Aussie side needed Glenn McGrath opening the bowling before it could really claim to be the best in the world. I do not think that our twelve years of dominance coincided exactly with the great man's career. I also do not think that the series that we lost or came close to losing in this period nearly all coincided with a McGrath injury.

 

[smash84]

The attack in 95/96 was Akram, Waqar, Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain. Akhtar was in the series later that decade. But the attack in 95/96 was fantastic.

1st Test: Australia v Pakistan at Brisbane, Nov 9-13, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Hobart, Nov 17-20, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Sydney, Nov 30-Dec 4, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo


Which is why most people probably didn't consider them #1 till after they beat WIndies in 95, and then never really looked back.

Yeah I said I was not sure he was there. Apparently he is there. That is quite a good attack. In fact might actually be better than the one in the late 90s where Waqar was a much lesser bowler IMO than he was earlier and Mushy was pretty ordinary by then.

At any rate it is a very tough call to make. The difference between the two sides is marginal in any case I think i.e. b/w WI and Aus

 

[stephen]

Tubby Taylor just simply nommed the Pakistani attack and it didn't matter who was bowling. I've never seen such a disparity between records as his. Averaged 60 vs Pak and 40 vs everyone else.

 

[subshakerz]

The attack in 95/96 was Akram, Waqar, Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain. Akhtar was in the series later that decade. But the attack in 95/96 was fantastic.

1st Test: Australia v Pakistan at Brisbane, Nov 9-13, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Hobart, Nov 17-20, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Sydney, Nov 30-Dec 4, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo


Which is why most people probably didn't consider them #1 till after they beat WIndies in 95, and then never really looked back.

Waqar was back after the back injury that essentially ended his peak and reduced his pace by 10mphs or so. After 94, he was always a shadow of his former bowling self. Saqlain was just making his debut. They only time Australia faced the 2 W's at their peak was 94 when they lost.

Also, do recall that a weaker WI team in 92/93 beat a strong Pakistani side with both Akram and Younis at their peak.