Australia (1995-2007) Vs. West Indies (1974-1986)?

[kyear2]

Name the bowlers who are better today. Great players transend eras. The only really great bowlers today are Steyn and possibly Swann.
The pitch at the Oval looked dead 4 houres ago, how about now. And the England bowlers can hardly be catergorised as great.

And how about commenting on the rest of my post.

 

[smash84]

Name the bowlers who are better today. Great players transend eras. The only really great bowlers today are Steyn and possibly Swann.
The pitch at the Oval looked dead 4 houres ago, how about now. And the England bowlers can hardly be catergorised as great.

And how about commenting on the rest of my post.

dude you will have a hard time arguing with people who just make stupid statements and don't even care to back them up and start moving in directions all over the place. Last time I checked we were told that McGrath and Warne were better than all of the WI attack and some posters were willing to prove that statistically. Guess what? The statistics never came up where Warne was proven to be better than Marshall

Donald retired around 2003, Wasim and Waqar 2003, Ambrose and Walsh early 00s. The only great bowlers left around from the 90s were Murali, Warne, McGrath, and Pollock and all of them did really well in the 00s. I don't really understand why the WI quartet would not have done well.

Also people like yusuf, jayawardena, tharanga (I think), and a host of other people were averaging almost mid 50s in the 00s. I don't see why the WI batsmen would not have made merry in such a situation. A good argument could be made that the bowling attacks were definitely below par in the 00s that that was such a major factor in batsmen making merry .

 

[subshakerz]

As for struggling, what exactly is your definition of struggling? Did you even check the scorecards? Because they England scores were were pretty much the same. The victories England got were by only 2 runs and 3 wickets. Helps to do some research before blabbering doesn't it?

Btw, what exactly happened to Ashley Giles? I missed when it was declared that he was a fast bowler.

As for Australia never facing the a "four-man specialist pace attack" again, did you even watch the 06/07 Ashes? They were missing Simon Jones but they got a pretty worthy replacement who would be James ****ing Anderson. Do you even know what you are talking about?

English batsmen did better than their Aussie counterparts in 2005, they managed 3 scores of 400 plus to Australia's 1, and had 3 batsmen average over 40 compared to Australia's 1. But that's besides the point, we are talking about the Aussie batsmen, and they certainly found it tough going when faced against sustained quality.

You're right, I forgot the 2006/07 series, probably because that attack had a rubbish James Anderson or Mahmood as fourth seamer rather than Jones. Harmison bowled complete tripe that series. A far way away from the 2005 attack.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm tired of pushing along the same lines with this discussion, so I thought I would lead somewhere different. Perhaps we can give out take on some of the following fantasy matches between the players and who we think would come up tops:

Holding vs. Hayden:

Holding was the fastest, quick-tempered and most known for delivering a rally of bouncers when in the mood. Hayden loved to dominate on the front foot and dictate terms to the opening paceman. Who wins?

Greenidge vs. McGrath:

Greenidge, like Hayden, refused to be cowed by opening pace bowlers and deliver a good thumping with incredible strength. McGrath was meticulous in spotting and exploiting weaknesses in opening batsmen across the world. Who wins?

Richards vs. Warne:

The big matchup, bigger than Tendulkar vs. Warne IMO. Both ultra-aggresive and proud warriors. Richards was never quite at his best against leg spinners but was unstoppable when he got going. Warne had his fair share of memorable battles against aggressive batsmen (Peitersen comes to mind), and never gave up in his pursuit of a wicket. Who wins?

Marshall vs. S. Waugh:

The unstoppable force vs. the immovable object. Marshall had all the tools and tricks and was capable of putting any batsman through the ultimate examination. Waugh faced down some of the best pacemen of his time and was willing to take body blows rather than lose his wicket. Who wins?

Garner vs. Gilchrist:

My favorite. Garner was the most miserly of all the WI bowlers, bowled a fantastic yorker and with his height and accuracy, very difficult to get away. Gilchrist was a force of nature, capable of scoring at breakneck pace and changing the game in a session. Who wins?

 

[smash84]

I remember Teja or VCS saying this (anybody know where he is?) saying this but in a competition between ATG batsmen and ATG bowlers you get the feeling that the ATG bowler has the upper hand since he only needs to bowl that one special delivery to get the batsman out.

 

[subshakerz]

I remember Teja or VCS saying this (anybody know where he is?) saying this but in a competition between ATG batsmen and ATG bowlers you get the feeling that the ATG bowler has the upper hand since he only needs to bowl that one special delivery to get the batsman out.

Yes, but I think some batsmen will favor some bowlers, and by the time they get out, you will know who has won the contest. So for example, I expect Richards to get on top of Warne 6/10 in 10 times faced, before Warne gets him out...

 

[Slifer]

That Warne Richards match up would have been the stuff of fairy tales. Each looking to dominate the other. In this particular matchup, I would probably give Warnie the edge in Oz. But when the series reverted to the WI I could honestly see Viv smackin Warne out of the little grounds we have in the WI.

Mcgrath vs Greenidge reminds me of the classic battles in the 80s between Greenidge and Hadlee. And each had their moments so I could see similar here.

I honestly though dont see either Hayden or Gilchrist causin Garner and Holding too many sleepless nights unless they some how managed to find a way to curtail their natural agression. I actually think Langer would fair far better than either tbh.

Steve Waugh earlier in his career struggled vs MM (and WI in general) but once he recouped he was a champion against us. Could see him doin similar here every now and then.

Ponting is the one Im on the fence for. I mean he did struggle vs ENG in 05 but at the top of his game I could see him playing a matching turning innings or two.

BTW are we playing under 80s or 90+ conditions?? Under 00 + conditions I would give the Oz bating lineup a bit of a chance (particularly at home) but under 80s conditions no way. WI batters under 80s conditions would probably struggle vs Oz but I anticipate them doin better in 00+ conditions.

 

[smash84]

given that Richards wasn't too brilliant against leg spin I would back Warne (at his peak) to get Richards out 7/10 times. I don't think Richards would have an answer to his flipper or especially the zooter.

 

[Slifer]

given that Richards wasn't too brilliant against leg spin I would back Warne (at his peak) to get Richards out 7/10 times. I don't think Richards would have an answer to his flipper or especially the zooter.

But on what score???

 

[smash84]

not more than 30 i suppose

 

[centurymaker]

I remember Teja or VCS saying this (anybody know where he is?) saying this but in a competition between ATG batsmen and ATG bowlers you get the feeling that the ATG bowler has the upper hand since he only needs to bowl that one special delivery to get the batsman out.

definitely.

 

[Slifer]

Maybe. I think a better matchup would have been Warne vs someone like Kallicharan.

 

[smash84]

or Warne vs Lloyd. Can imagine Lloyd smashing a fair few

 

[GotSpin]

This speculation is ridiculous

 

[Slifer]

definitely.

Thats y this matchup is so mouth watering. U have arguably the best bowling attack of all time (MM, Holding, Garner and ne 4th bowler) vs arguably the best batting lineup of all time (Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Waugh, Waugh M, Martyn, Gilchrist).

But then u have a great Oz attack (who arent far behind the the WI of the 80s) vs a WI batting lineup who arent that far behind their Oz counterparts. Couldnt be more even if u ask me. Esp if u also factor in, both teams were also tremendous fielding sides. I think the results of the poll pretty much reflects what the outcome would probably look like; just about even.

 

[smash84]

awta

 

[Fusion]

I think this thread has run its course for now. Glad to know we've settled the issue of who's better.