Aus xi vs WI xi vs SA xi (since 1970)

[PlayerComparisons]

Which team is the strongest?

Greenidge
Haynes
Viv
Lara
Lloyd
Sobers
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Lillee
McGrath

Barry
Smith
Amla
Pollock
Kallis
De Villiers
De Kock
Pollock
Steyn
Donald
Van der Bijl

 

[Sunil1z]

Taylor should be there instead of Langer and he should captain the side .

 

[Coronis]

Australia.

 

[Thala_0710]

WI>AUS>SA

 

[subshakerz]

WI just too much firepower.

 

[Johan]

Windies>Australia>South Africa

 

[Coronis]

WI just too much firepower.

Nah Australia has better batting and Warne.

 

[subshakerz]

Nah Australia has better batting and Warne.

Warne won't be as a big a threat as a worldclass pacer in these encounters. Cummins not quite elite level yet.

Batting more or less equal.

 

[Thala_0710]

Batting difference is minimal imo, it basically just is Gilly being a much superior bat to Dujon. WI have a superior pace attack (Marshall~Mcgrath, Ambrose>Lillee, Garner>Cummins) and whilst I consider Warne to be a superior bowler to Holding, overall I would say WI have a clearly better attack, especially with Sobers being a great 5th option which AUS lack.
Overall, a slight edge to WI on account on having just more match winners with both bat and ball.

 

[subshakerz]

Batting difference is minimal imo, it basically just is Gilly being a much superior bat to Dujon. WI have a superior pace attack (Marshall~Mcgrath, Ambrose>Lillee, Garner>Cummins) and whilst I consider Warne to be a superior bowler to Holding, overall I would say WI have a clearly better attack, especially with Sobers being a great 5th option which AUS lack.
Overall, a slight edge to WI on account on having just more match winners with both bat and ball.

The bowling difference is what matters most. WI slightly more deadly plus they complement each other, swing master, pure pace and bounce

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Pretty insane the level of talent these three have produced when guys like Waugh, Walsh, and Rabada arguably don’t even get in

 

[Coronis]

Batting difference is minimal imo, it basically just is Gilly being a much superior bat to Dujon. WI have a superior pace attack (Marshall~Mcgrath, Ambrose>Lillee, Garner>Cummins) and whilst I consider Warne to be a superior bowler to Holding, overall I would say WI have a clearly better attack, especially with Sobers being a great 5th option which AUS lack.
Overall, a slight edge to WI on account on having just more match winners with both bat and ball.

The bowling difference is what matters most. WI slightly more deadly plus they complement each other, swing master, pure pace and bounce

Its not just Gilly. Haynes is easily below Langer. And Lloyd is well, well below any of the Aussie middle order bats.

I also love this trend recently of “spinners don’t matter in ATG stuff”. Warne makes a huge difference and gives Australia a huge advantage. Talking about attacks complimenting each other and pretending spin doesn’t matter? Thats a laugh.

I would also very much question the matchwinner comment lol.

 

[The Sean]

On another note, if Sobers (17 Tests out of 93) is OK for selection in a West Indies post-1970 team, then Bradman (15 Tests out of 52) should now definitely be eligible for an Australian post-war side.

 

[Thala_0710]

Its not just Gilly. Haynes is easily below Langer. And Lloyd is well, well below any of the Aussie middle order bats.

Yeah but Greenidge is above Hayden, Viv above Ponting and Sobers above Border too. So the net result is just that

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I should have said 1960

 

[The Sean]

Yeah but Greenidge is above Hayden, Viv above Ponting and Sobers above Border too. So the net result is just that

Sobers certainly above Border overall, but absolutely disagree that Sobers 1971-1974 was better than Border's whole career.

 

[Thala_0710]

Sobers certainly above Border overall, but absolutely disagree that Sobers 1971-1974 was better than Border's whole career.

When Sobers was included, I assumed we were talking about him as a player with his entire career, if it's just the 71-74 period then it changes things considerably. He probably shouldn't even be in the XI then

 

[MartinB]

Batting difference is minimal imo, it basically just is Gilly being a much superior bat to Dujon. WI have a superior pace attack (Marshall~Mcgrath, Ambrose>Lillee, Garner>Cummins) and whilst I consider Warne to be a superior bowler to Holding, overall I would say WI have a clearly better attack, especially with Sobers being a great 5th option which AUS lack.
Overall, a slight edge to WI on account on having just more match winners with both bat and ball.

Australian batsmen typically are very good against medium paces like Sobers & Kallis, both had bowling averages of > 40 in Australia.
Against Australia, Sobers had a bowling averaged 39+ in the WI, 40+ in Australia and 48 in 71/72 World 11 Series. Against Australia

The Australian attack has some advantages

• Warne provides several advances
  • Advantages on spinning wickets
  • Provides variety
  • Help keep the pacemen rested.
• Australia had higher WPM

 

[The Sean]

When Sobers was included, I assumed we were talking about him as a player with his entire career, if it's just the 71-74 period then it changes things considerably. He probably shouldn't even be in the XI then

Yeah that's my thinking - it's a bit of a cheat including him, and a lot of a cheat to judge him by his whole career! It should probably be Chanderpaul (or possibly Richardson/Kallicharran) for that final spot.

 

[subshakerz]

Its not just Gilly. Haynes is easily below Langer. And Lloyd is well, well below any of the Aussie middle order bats.

Sobers, Viv, Greenidge and Lara are better than the rest of the bats. There isn't a big edge either way.

I also love this trend recently of “spinners don’t matter in ATG stuff”. Warne makes a huge difference and gives Australia a huge advantage. Talking about attacks complimenting each other and pretending spin doesn’t matter? Thats a laugh.

Strawman. In this particular context against high quality spin players and not on mostly spin friendly pitches, yeah Warne will be relatively less effective and more condition dependent than say, Garner. Of course he will still make his impact but he isn't this trumpcard you are portraying him as.