Ashwin vs Kumble

[Silver Silva]

This. Plus Kumble played a Pakistan lineup with Inzi, Yousuf and Younis. England were at least as strong as they are now in the 2000s. Australia were an ATG XI. SL has Sanga, Jaya and Sam. SA always a fairly strong lineup with good players of spin like Cullinan, Kirsten, and Cronje. NZ mostly sucked but Fleming was a great player of spin.

Overall batting quality was far ahead of what Ashwin faced.

But Kumble isn't a 2000's cricketer solely..He actually played more in the 90's, than he did in the 2000's ..
He faced Sri Lanka in 11 Tests before Sangakkara and Samaraweera even debuted in Test Cricket..You make a lot of generalisations.

 

[subshakerz]

But Kumble isn't a 2000's cricketer solely..He actually played more in the 90's, than he did in the 2000's ..
He faced Sri Lanka in 11 Tests before Sangakkara and Samaraweera even debuted in Test Cricket..You make a lot of generalisations.

Even then he faced DeSilva and Jaya who were top players of spin. I will grant that the nineties English team were poor players of spin. Pakistan had Anwar and Salim Malik, great players of spin. Australia had the Waugh bros and a generally strong lineup. WI were a better team than the 2000s. The main point still applies.

 

[GirthQuake]

Revisiting this thread after another Ashwin special. Ashwin's record speaks for itself and he's less than a 100 wickets away from the great Kumble having played 30 tests less.

But is Ashwin clearly the superior bowler? Maybe Kumble is the better spinner because

1. DRS. Kumble's bowling particularly would have been tailor made for DRS - top spinners, stump to stump line, always threatening the LBW.

2. Kumble played 69 tests away out of his 132 test career. In contrast, Ashwin has only played 39 tests away in his 101 test long career.

3. The bowling attack Kumble was part of, particularly when playing away, was orders of magnitude weaker than the current Indian bowling attack. It's highlighted in their respective home records that are strikingly similar despite Ashwin having the benefit of DRS.

4. Half of Kumble's career was in the decade of 2000s when batting was the easiest - historically. No decade saw more runs scored per wicket and even India had some of the flattest wickets and a lot of drawn matches.

 

[honestbharani]

Ash is better. Ash is an ATG spinner and a decent test batsman to boot.

 

[Coronis]

Revisiting this thread after another Ashwin special. Ashwin's record speaks for itself and he's less than a 100 wickets away from the great Kumble having played 30 tests less.

But is Ashwin clearly the superior bowler? Maybe Kumble is the better spinner because

1. DRS. Kumble's bowling particularly would have been tailor made for DRS - top spinners, stump to stump line, always threatening the LBW.

2. Kumble played 69 tests away out of his 132 test career. In contrast, Ashwin has only played 39 tests away in his 101 test long career.

3. The bowling attack Kumble was part of, particularly when playing away, was orders of magnitude weaker than the current Indian bowling attack. It's highlighted in their respective home records that are strikingly similar despite Ashwin having the benefit of DRS.

4. Half of Kumble's career was in the decade of 2000s when batting was the easiest - historically. No decade saw more runs scored per wicket and even India had some of the flattest wickets and a lot of drawn matches.

Actually not true.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Ashwin.

Kumble averages 44 in Pakistan and 45 in SriLanka, 32 in WI, so he was basically good just in Indian conditions .

Aswhin did face a quality SriLanka side having Sanga, Mathews, Chandimal, Karunaratne and excelled, I don’t see any reason as to why he would fail against SriLanka of the noughties.

Even tactically and skillwise Ashwin is ahead.

For me the order is

Ashwin
Bedi
Kumble
Jadeja
Chandra
Gupte
Harbhajan
Prasanna
Mankad
Venkat

 

[GirthQuake]

Actually not true.

Would you say the period in which Ashwin bowled has been more batting friendly than 2000s?

 

[Coronis]

Would you say the period in which Ashwin bowled has been more batting friendly than 2000s?

No? Thats not what I said.

 

[GirthQuake]

Ashwin.

Kumble averages 44 in Pakistan and 45 in SriLanka, 32 in WI, so he was basically good just in Indian conditions .

Aswhin did face a quality SriLanka side having Sanga, Mathews, Chandimal, Karunaratne and excelled, I don’t see any reason as to why he would fail against SriLanka of the noughties.

Even tactically and skillwise Ashwin is ahead.

For me the order is

Ashwin
Bedi
Kumble
Jadeja
Chandra
Gupte
Harbhajan
Prasanna
Mankad
Venkat

Poor reply that pick out the well noted gaps in Kumble's resume and fills the rest with subjective tactics and skills BS.

Extrapolating that Ashwin would have done excellently against SL in noughties or 90s is not warranted at all. After all, Kumble did well in SL in his 1st series but failed to sustain that performance later - this was peak SL with Jayasuriya etc. If Kumble had played just the solitary series would we extrapolate likewise that he'd have sustained his performance?

 

[GirthQuake]

No? Thats not what I said.

Ok, then you reply is irrelevant.

 

[Coronis]

Ok, then you reply is irrelevant.

Whatever you say mate.

 

[Majestic]

Ashwin and Jadeja will walk into India all time XI at #9 and #7 respectively in my opinion.

Do not treat your 5th option as a bowling A/R but a genuine all rounder. Most all time XIs will have 4 bowlers only + Sobers/Kallis level 5th bowler.

Jadeja is a better bowler than both and is a much better batsman than say, India going with a Kumble.


6. Rishabh Pant(wkt)
7. Ravindra Jadeja
8. Kapil Dev
9. Ravichandran Ashwin
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

The batting depth is insane and enough bowlers are there to win games with bowl in different conditions.

 

[GirthQuake]

Yeah, Ashwin could still be picked ahead of Kumble on account of his batting prowess. Although some might question the need for bolstering batting in an ATG XI because it's bit of a minnow habit.

Purely as a spinner, Kumble still ahead for me.

 

[Coronis]

Ashwin and Jadeja will walk into India all time XI at #9 and #7 respectively in my opinion.

Do not treat your 5th option as a bowling A/R but a genuine all rounder. Most all time XIs will have 4 bowlers only + Sobers/Kallis level 5th bowler.

Jadeja is a better bowler than both and is a much better batsman than say, India going with a Kumble.


6. Rishabh Pant(wkt)
7. Ravindra Jadeja
8. Kapil Dev
9. Ravichandran Ashwin
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

The batting depth is okay and enough bowlers are there to win games with bowl in different conditions.

ftfy

 

[Shri]

this was peak SL with Jayasuriya etc.

ashwin famously bad against left handers lmao

sit down

 

[GirthQuake]

ashwin famously bad against left handers lmao

sit down

Is that what I said? Or are you quoting from your Ashwin chaleesa?

Ashwin the singular ATG spinner who regularly gets dropped for Jadeja when India tour SENA.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Is that what I said? Or are you quoting from your Ashwin chaleesa?

Ashwin the singular ATG spinner who regularly gets dropped for Jadeja when India tour SENA.

Kumble would also get dropped if we had Jadeja at that time.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Ashwin is not an ATG for me though, probably an ATVG.

Never gave the invincible feeling that we get from an ATG, especially away from home.

 

[GirthQuake]

Kumble would also get dropped if we had Jadeja at that time.

Unlikey. Back in those days Jadeja's career would be another forgotten Sunil Joshi.

 

[OverratedSanity]

We'd have dropped Warne for Jadeja if we'd had him too. So, it's not really an insult.