Andrew Strauss - Not a bad start, chap.

[social]

and how many spinners have succeeded in india? not many
and personally an average of 43 with the ball is nowhere near as bad (especially considering that he bowled better than his figures suggested this time around) as 12 is with the bat.

Difference being that Warne's overall test average v India is worse again whilst Ponting's is still over 50.

Relative failure against India does not enter into people's minds when they rate Warne as one of the 5 greatest bowlers of all time (and that's conservative for someone rated as one of the 5 greatest cricketers of the 20th century) and it wont count against Ponting.

After all, Harbijhan (his principal tormentor on the second to last tour to India) was only saved from the embarrassment of being dropped from the Indian Test Team in Australia by injury. Whilst there is no real excuse for Ponting's woeful record in India, they have produced 7 wickets ridiculously infavour of their spinners in a row for us to combat.

 

[Dasa]

they have produced 7 wickets ridiculously infavour of their spinners in a row for us to combat.

????
Where does 7 in a row come into it???

 

[tooextracool]

Difference being that Warne's overall test average v India is worse again whilst Ponting's is still over 50.

Relative failure against India does not enter into people's minds when they rate Warne as one of the 5 greatest bowlers of all time (and that's conservative for someone rated as one of the 5 greatest cricketers of the 20th century) and it wont count against Ponting..

except that warne had a perfectly acceptable series against india in australia in 99/00. took 6 wickets against india in the first game at adelaide. again the fact is that very few spinners have actually done well against india either home or away.

After all, Harbijhan (his principal tormentor on the second to last tour to India) was only saved from the embarrassment of being dropped from the Indian Test Team in Australia by injury. Whilst there is no real excuse for Ponting's woeful record in India, they have produced 7 wickets ridiculously infavour of their spinners in a row for us to combat.

clearly you havent been watching any of those tours in india, only his last game produced something that was 'ridiculously in favour of spinners', the rest were just the typical slow subcontinental wickets where plenty of runs can be scored. no surprise of course when all the bowlers averaged more than ponting did in the last series either.

 

[social]

2nd innings vs SA - Aaaaah cricket, the great leveller.

 

[BoyBrumby]

2nd innings vs SA - Aaaaah cricket, the great leveller.

Yeah, takes his test career average down to a paltry 60.10. He's cr@p, drop him!!

 

[social]

except that warne had a perfectly acceptable series against india in australia in 99/00. took 6 wickets against india in the first game at adelaide. again the fact is that very few spinners have actually done well against india either home or away.



clearly you havent been watching any of those tours in india, only his last game produced something that was 'ridiculously in favour of spinners', the rest were just the typical slow subcontinental wickets where plenty of runs can be scored. no surprise of course when all the bowlers averaged more than ponting did in the last series either.

All of the wickets produced by India for Australia's last 2 tours there have been prepared to suit the home side - no great surprise, every other country does it except Australia because:

a. the TV networks here are sick of 3 -4 day tests - lost revenue is too great; and

b. football season does not allow time to do it.

India, who are a highly talented cricket team (second only behind Aus IMO) have done themselves a massive disservice on the world stage by doing so.

 

[Pratters]

All of the wickets produced by India for Australia's last 2 tours there have been prepared to suit the home side - no great surprise, every other country does it except Australia because:

a. the TV networks here are sick of 3 -4 day tests - lost revenue is too great; and

b. football season does not allow time to do it.

India, who are a highly talented cricket team (second only behind Aus IMO) have done themselves a massive disservice on the world stage by doing so.

So Australia would like to win their matches in 5 days instead of 3-4 ? Seriously, the T.V. networks lose money when matches finish early but no one is asking them to prepare whatever wickets they want to.

If every other nation does it, how has India done itself in doing the same? It was silly to see Ponting cry over a prepared pitch where Australia lost last time.

 

[social]

So Australia would like to win their matches in 5 days instead of 3-4 ? Seriously, the T.V. networks lose money when matches finish early but no one is asking them to prepare whatever wickets they want to.

If every other nation does it, how has India done itself in doing the same? It was silly to see Ponting cry over a prepared pitch where Australia lost last time.

Despite the state of the last pitch in India, Australia would have won the game if the team applied itself even reasonably - the point I am making is that you can count on one hand the number of series that India has won away from home.

The authorities have handed things to them on a platter for too long!

Their players get almost universal adoration and huge endorsement contracts from their own country for achieving nothing more than achieving exactly what they should at home (given that they prepare pitches to suit themselves) and nothing overseas except a drawn series with Australia. They've recently been beaten senseless by NZ and by Bangladesh in a ODI for f***s sake!

 

[Pratters]

Despite the state of the last pitch in India, Australia would have won the game if the team applied itself even reasonably - the point I am making is that you can count on one hand the number of series that India has won away from home.

The authorities have handed things to them on a platter for too long!

Their players get almost universal adoration and huge endorsement contracts from their own country for achieving nothing more than achieving exactly what they should at home (given that they prepare pitches to suit themselves) and nothing overseas except a drawn series with Australia. They've recently been beaten senseless by NZ and by Bangladesh in a ODI for f***s sake!

Your reasoning for preparing doctored pitches harming Indian cricket is old. Manjrekar wrote a column on this in the December 2004 issue of Wisden Asia Cricket. It did harm India overseas in the 90s. But they started winning tests in home which werent happening earlier with high frequency either. And S.Waugh himself said the pitches the last time he captained in the series in India were good. The only bad pitch Australia faced last time was in a single test. Not a problem.

Handling pitches on platter? Every team does that and suiting pitches to one's advatage is not wrong.

India lost to Bangladesh due to their doctored pitches? The last time I checked, pitches in Bangladesh and India werent much different. And you make it sound as if losing to NZ in one dayers is a crime!

Whenever a team got a bouncy Perth in Australia, there was a spin track some where else. Thats the beauty of cricket. No use blaming losses to pitches.

 

[social]

Your reasoning for preparing doctored pitches harming Indian cricket is old. Manjrekar wrote a column on this in the December 2004 issue of Wisden Asia Cricket. It did harm India overseas in the 90s. But they started winning tests in home which werent happening earlier with high frequency either. And S.Waugh himself said the pitches the last time he captained in the series in India were good. The only bad pitch Australia faced last time was in a single test. Not a problem.

Handling pitches on platter? Every team does that and suiting pitches to one's advatage is not wrong.

India lost to Bangladesh due to their doctored pitches? The last time I checked, pitches in Bangladesh and India werent much different. And you make it sound as if losing to NZ in one dayers is a crime!

Whenever a team got a bouncy Perth in Australia, there was a spin track some where else. Thats the beauty of cricket. No use blaming losses to pitches.

Yes, the argument is old and, unfortunately, the results havent changed nor have the conditions in India.

Your sig says that you live in Calcutta and therefore I assume your an Indian cricket fan. I may be an Australian but I love cricket. To me, a team containing Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Kumble, Harbijhan, and Zaheer shouls AT LEAST be the 2nd best team in the world (you'll notice that I havent included Ganguly - cant stand him). Their failures overseas should annoy you more than they do me - the fact that they obviously dont is the reason why India remains an under-achiever.

 

[social]

Yeah, takes his test career average down to a paltry 60.10. He's cr@p, drop him!!

Refer to my earlier comments about not taking snapshots of a career as being representative of the whole.

 

[Pratters]

Yes, the argument is old and, unfortunately, the results havent changed nor have the conditions in India.

Your sig says that you live in Calcutta and therefore I assume your an Indian cricket fan.

I can assure you I am more of a cricket fan than an Indian cricket fan. Make an assumption you are and I am not is silly.

Indian cricket abroad has improved in a few test wins and not in a series and I am not even starting to defend or speak against them.

You pointed out Australia's last two tours of India and how it was poor cricket. Now the pitches have been like that for so many tours! So why point out those two tours? It seems by that, as if you are complaining more about the pitches from an aussie fan point of view far more than a cricket fan's point of view who would like to enjoy cricket on all pitches.

India should prepare pitches of bouncy nature in their domestic games and tracks according to their own advantage in international matches in home. By preparing 'cricket' pitches in international matches, what do you want? Foreign teams come to their country and defeat them 5-0 in home? Prepare 5 pitches like Sydney for the next sub continental tour of Australia and then speak about 'sporting' pitches. When India toured Australia, Australia had one of the best batting pitches and India did exploit it as good as Australians if not better. If thats a problem, and you guys will cry over it till now, preparing 'sporting' wickets would be worse I reckon.

 

[social]

I can assure you I am more of a cricket fan than an Indian cricket fan. Make an assumption you are and I am not is silly.

Indian cricket abroad has improved in a few test wins and not in a series and I am not even starting to defend or speak against them.

You pointed out Australia's last two tours of India and how it was poor cricket. Now the pitches have been like that for so many tours! So why point out those two tours? It seems by that, as if you are complaining more about the pitches from an aussie fan point of view far more than a cricket fan's point of view who would like to enjoy cricket on all pitches.

India should prepare pitches of bouncy nature in their domestic games and tracks according to their own advantage in international matches in home. By preparing 'cricket' pitches in international matches, what do you want? Foreign teams come to their country and defeat them 5-0 in home? Prepare 5 pitches like Sydney for the next sub continental tour of Australia and then speak about 'sporting' pitches. When India toured Australia, Australia had one of the best batting pitches and India did exploit it as good as Australians if not better. If thats a problem, and you guys will cry over it till now, preparing 'sporting' wickets would be worse I reckon.

I dont really understand your last post.

Away from home, with the exception of the last series in Australia (and allowing for the fact that Warne and McGrath were absent, and Gillespie played most of the series injuried), India's away record is abysmal.

Dont you think it's time for a change?

Something must be wrong because the players have the talent.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Refer to my earlier comments about not taking snapshots of a career as being representative of the whole.

I'd say that's generally a fair point, but unless your crystal ball is working better than mine, who's to say how Andrew's test career will pan out?

FWIW he may merely be a very, very good player who happens to be in great form rather than a great player, but has a superb temprement & a sound technique. Too early to call, but as the thread title says, "not a bad start, chap".

 

[Pratters]

I dont really understand your last post.

Away from home, with the exception of the last series in Australia (and allowing for the fact that Warne and McGrath were absent, and Gillespie played most of the series injuried), India's away record is abysmal.

Dont you think it's time for a change?

Something must be wrong because the players have the talent.

I dont really understand your last post.

Away from home, with the exception of the last series in Australia (and allowing for the fact that Warne and McGrath were absent, and Gillespie played most of the series injuried), India's away record is abysmal.

Dont you think it's time for a change?

Something must be wrong because the players have the talent.

Changes are definitely required in the state of pitches in domestic cricket. I never said they dont have a poor record still outside India. They have improved from before though, winning tests outside the subcontinent which also never used to happen.

The players are inconsistent and that is a poor thing to be despite of all the talent. Its not just pitches which is the problem because else India would have performed far better in the last year than it has.

So what is your point?

 

[marc71178]

Refer to my earlier comments about not taking snapshots of a career as being representative of the whole.

But that is his whole career!

 

[tooextracool]

All of the wickets produced by India for Australia's last 2 tours there have been prepared to suit the home side - no great surprise, every other country does it except Australia because:

a. the TV networks here are sick of 3 -4 day tests - lost revenue is too great; and

b. football season does not allow time to do it.

India, who are a highly talented cricket team (second only behind Aus IMO) have done themselves a massive disservice on the world stage by doing so.

no they didnt,most of the wickets provided plenty of runs for the batsman- the 2nd and 3rd test of the last series as well as the first, 2nd and 3rd test of the recent series. plenty of batsmen scored, ponting didnt.

 

[Deja moo]

hes actually had 8 tests in india, 2 whole series and a one off test before the most recent one, at an overall average of 12. and while he cannot be blamed for his most recent opportunity, it must be said that he wasted another chance to prove himself in conditions where hes never proven himself before.



.

I disagree with that part. A major reason fo Pontings failure against sustained spin pressure is his inability to play the ball with soft hands. In his brief stints at the crease in the fourth test, he showed that he still hadnt learnt any lessons. He continued to plant his front foot forward to most deliveries and go hard at the ball.

 

[social]

no they didnt,most of the wickets provided plenty of runs for the batsman- the 2nd and 3rd test of the last series as well as the first, 2nd and 3rd test of the recent series. plenty of batsmen scored, ponting didnt.

Pity he only played in the 4th Test of the most recent series then.

Chances are, that had he played on a decent wicket following some match practice, we would not even be having this debate.

 

[tooextracool]

I disagree with that part. A major reason fo Pontings failure against sustained spin pressure is his inability to play the ball with soft hands. In his brief stints at the crease in the fourth test, he showed that he still hadnt learnt any lessons. He continued to plant his front foot forward to most deliveries and go hard at the ball.

yes i know, i dont rate ponting against spin either. im simply pointing out that at least this time he had somewhat of an excuse for failing, something that he didnt have on his last 3 tours to india.