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And here we go again....

Scallywag

Banned
Gangster said:
Is it so far-fetched to believe that an umpire simply does not like a team? The Tendulkar incident is just the latest in a ever-increasing body of evidence to suggest that Bucknor is either an amazingly incompetent umpire (although his most egregious decisions seem to come solely against India) or, more logically, he dislikes the Indian team. Perhaps Ganguly has rubbed him the wrong way, perhaps Dalmiya put him up in a sub-standard hotel room, or perhaps Dravid slept with his daughter. We can guess for days, but from all appearances, it is clear Bucknor dislikes the Indian team enough to allow his decisions to be influenced. On another note, Darrell Hair sucks too. .
Talking about stupid, Dravid sleeping with bucknors daughter, you need to drop the paranioa about the umpires and stop blaming them for everything that goes wrong.

Saying D Hair sucks well thats a brilliant well thought out statement dont you think Gangster.

It just seems that Indians cant ever grasp the fact that accepting the umpires decision is what makes the man not how much you can blame on the umpire.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
It just seems that Indians cant ever grasp the fact that accepting the umpires decision is what makes the man not how much you can blame on the umpire.
That's enough of the blanket stereotypes, thanks.
 

Gangster

U19 12th Man
Scallywag said:
Talking about stupid, Dravid sleeping with bucknors daughter, you need to drop the paranioa about the umpires and stop blaming them for everything that goes wrong.

Saying D Hair sucks well thats a brilliant well thought out statement dont you think Gangster.

It just seems that Indians cant ever grasp the fact that accepting the umpires decision is what makes the man not how much you can blame on the umpire.
My dear Scallywag, do you really have such trouble reading and comprehending? Well, allow me to explain something to you. Th :ph34r: ere are two facets to reading: reading the words and comprehending their meaning. You're quite good at the first part, congratulations. However, the second is really where you start to struggle. I don't know whether to blame the Australian school system or your genes, but either way, you seem to have little to no ability to comprehend the written word. So really any explanation from me is a waste of everyone's time. But as I am a big proponent (that means "fan" Scallywag) of charity work, I shall attempt to do so anyway. My remark that "Perhaps Dravid slept with Bucknor's daughter" was a facetious one. A facetious remark is a joke. Now you may be wondering aloud, "But what's a joke?" Well, a good example of one is the term "Australian sportsmanship". :D
 

Scallywag

Banned
Top_Cat said:
That's enough of the blanket stereotypes, thanks.

Top_Cat said:
Most umpires are generally 50+; would you put the future of your career in the hands of someone who doesn't understand the physics and biology of movement in addition to the fact that their eyesight is in the process of deterioration..

You made a statement that stereotypes anyone over 50 saying they don't understand the physics and biology of movement.

Sure your'e not Indian. :D :D :D
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
You made a statement that stereotypes anyone over 50 saying they don't understand the physics and biology of movement.
Name me umpire who does then? And it's not incorrect to say that most umpires are 50+ so by definition their eyesight wouldn't be as good as it was 20 years previous. So :p

You literally took my quote out of context there; in the previous paragraph I stated 'as far as I know' for the human movement stuff. Ever considered a political career? :D

Well, a good example of one is the term "Australian sportsmanship".
No, that would be an oxymoron. :)

Sure your'e not Indian.
I'm part Aussie Aboriginal and the fossil record suggests they're descended from Southern India if you go back far enough so maybe there's something in that after all. :)
 

C_C

International Captain
A bowling machine can bowl faster and more accurately than a human bowler so why not allow teams to use a bowling machine, Batsmen would get out less if we allowed them to have bigger and wider bats and fielders would drop less catches if they were allowed to use catching mitts so why are we stopping all these advancements in cricket.
I didnt expect anything intelligible from you, so i am not surprised.

For one, Catching mitts are different than free-hand catching..it does NOT make one a better catcher just to be wearing mitts... In baseball, mitts give you a slightly wider range for grasping the ball but less feel and i've seen the ball slip out from the gloves just as much, if not more, than free hand.

For two, Machines can bowl faster or more accurately but it cannot produce the variety without sentience from another source- ie, someone needs to go tinker with it to make it bowl the googly or the flipper or the offcutter or whatever and it is not strategically the equal of human beings, since it lacks the sentience to take a gamble or use mind-games.
It is equivalent of playing chess with a computer- i am a regular chess player and i can tell you that while the computer is superior than many human beings, it is not a match for many ( deep purple/blue exempted but then again, it is not a sentient player, neither is it completely independent.)

The involvement of technology is in the DECISIONMAKING process of the game and not the PLAYINGS of the game itself. two are quiete different.

For making a pre-programmed and generic version of goods ( clothes/automobiles) etc. the machine is better suited but cricket is not bowling generic pre-programmed deliveries or generic pre-programmed strokes. It is about sentience and cognition-based intelligence.

Umpiring or decisionmaking is however a pre-determined set of rules being used to guage the situation and therefore can be programmed into a machine. It is no different than a quality control unit that is essentially a CPU hooked to several sensors that runs a re-determined set of rules to PASS/FAIL a product.

Playing involves innovation, psychology and gambling. Those are sentient functions that technology cannot replace YET. While umpiring/referreeing decisionmaking is akin to a quality control unit, playing is akin to designing...and machines dont design-YET.
If players are to be replaced, you need a sentient and cognitive form of artificial intelligence-Lt.Data-type from star trek- to take its place.
And until we DO manage to design a sentient artificial intelligence, arguing whether it can replace a human being or not is irrelevant- we havnt come to that bridge yet and arguing about that is akin to arguing what are we gonna do 5 billion years from now when the sun will go supernova.

It just seems that Indians cant ever grasp the fact that accepting the umpires decision is what makes the man not how much you can blame on the umpire.
Indians, Pakitsanis, Sri Lankans, West Indians and many Kiwis i know........
Arnt you a believer in democracy ? majority rules right ? i dare ya to take a poll worldwide on this technology issue and see where the cricketing public slants.
 

Scallywag

Banned
Gangster said:
My dear Scallywag, do you really have such trouble reading and comprehending? Well, allow me to explain something to you. Th :ph34r: ere are two facets to reading: reading the words and comprehending their meaning. You're quite good at the first part, congratulations. However, the second is really where you start to struggle. I don't know whether to blame the Australian school system or your genes, but either way, you seem to have little to no ability to comprehend the written word. So really any explanation from me is a waste of everyone's time. But as I am a big proponent (that means "fan" Scallywag) of charity work, I shall attempt to do so anyway. My remark that "Perhaps Dravid slept with Bucknor's daughter" was a facetious one. A facetious remark is a joke. Now you may be wondering aloud, "But what's a joke?" Well, a good example of one is the term "Australian sportsmanship". :D
My dearest Gangster.

I see you have been very charitable in your explanation of a joke, as you quite rightly pointed out I have no idea what a joke is. Your warm generous response to my suggestion that bowling machines replace bowlers made me realise that it would be a joke to suggest that. My heart is soothed knowing how much it means to you trying to find some way to imply that there must be a reason for Australia being the top cricket nation while India fight with the peasants for the coverted second best. :D :D :D
 

C_C

International Captain
You made a statement that stereotypes anyone over 50 saying they don't understand the physics and biology of movement.
That is not a generalisation- he didnt say ANYONE over 50..he said particularly in reference to 50+ CRICKET UMPIRES....which is a fact or atleast, very close to the truth.
It is no different than saying that most 50+ plumbers dont know poppycock about electronics engineering or most 50+ engineers know zilch about microbiology.......which is either true or atleast, very close to the truth.
 

Scallywag

Banned
C_C said:
Umpiring or decisionmaking is however a pre-determined set of rules being used to guage the situation and therefore can be programmed into a machine. It is no different than a quality control unit that is essentially a CPU hooked to several sensors that runs a re-determined set of rules to PASS/FAIL a product.
.
OK then C_C explain how a machine will determine that a bowler deliberately pitched a beam ball, and then explain how a machine will tell if a batsman was deliberately interfered with by the fieldsman, or do you need a human to decide on these.
 

Scallywag

Banned
C_C said:
That is not a generalisation- he didnt say ANYONE over 50..he said particularly in reference to 50+ CRICKET UMPIRES....which is a fact or atleast, very close to the truth.
It is no different than saying that most 50+ plumbers dont know poppycock about electronics engineering or most 50+ engineers know zilch about microbiology.......which is either true or atleast, very close to the truth.
Geez your a dropkick C_C, everybody knows engineers are the dumbos (think they know everything and write endless posts trying to impress themselves) of society.

plumbers electronics all have nothing to do with umpires.

Umpires over 50 would have a better understanding of bowling than some smartarse 25 year old.
 

Vroomfondel

U19 12th Man
ok, back to topic.
--
so this means that broad doesn't trust the biomechanical engineers who thought harbhajan's action was fine? and is going back to the same people?

or does broad think that harbhajan's action has changed in 15 days?
 

C_C

International Captain
OK then C_C explain how a machine will determine that a bowler deliberately pitched a beam ball, and then explain how a machine will tell if a batsman was deliberately interfered with by the fieldsman, or do you need a human to decide on these.
Which is PRECISELY why i am not advocating the complete removal of umpires-YET.
The point i am making is that eventually, they will be expendable, as umpires are not the central nexus of the game but players are and umpiring is not sentience except in few rare cases (beamers/walkin on the pitch/obstruction-rare happenings).

Today, you COULD write a software for guaging beamers or wides or obstruction/walking on the pitch etc. but they wont be as efficient as the umpires would be- but tomorrow- you maybe able to do that. That is merely improving an existing model. Having a machine take the field as a bowler/batsman/keeper is not improving a technology-it is technological breakthrough in regards of artificial intelligence. Again, two totally different things- improvement and invention..

The jobs i want the gadgets to take over - calling no balls,lbws, catches, run outs and near-boundary incidents- ARE better done by gadgets.
Umpires-atleast for now- are better suited for calling a wide, beamer, obstruction, etc.

Geez your a dropkick C_C, everybody knows engineers are the dumbos (think they know everything and write endless posts trying to impress themselves) of society.
I sometimes think we engineers are dumbasses as well- if only we had made these computers a wee bit more harder to handle and operate, we could've eliminated dumb shytes like you from using up bandwidth with worthless tripe.
:D

Umpires over 50 would have a better understanding of bowling than some smartarse 25 year old.
Not if the 25 year old is a certified bio-mechanic or kinesiologist.
 
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C_C

International Captain
so this means that broad doesn't trust the biomechanical engineers who thought harbhajan's action was fine? and is going back to the same people?

or does broad think that harbhajan's action has changed in 15 days?
I think Broad is just being an idiot or the latter one ( since if it were the former one, it would automatically mean Broad is a crap-fer-brains).
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Scallywag said:
Geez your a dropkick C_C, everybody knows engineers are the dumbos (think they know everything and write endless posts trying to impress themselves) of society.

plumbers electronics all have nothing to do with umpires.

Umpires over 50 would have a better understanding of bowling than some smartarse 25 year old.
I take offence to that, because I am going to be an engineer soon enough. Outdoor Sports are played by human beings and they are exciting precisely because it is the humans who play those sports. Technology can HELP make decisions with a guy sitting up near the television and drawing conclusions WITH THE HELP of technology. C_C and Top Cat have been suggesting that technology, when it is developed fully to suit the requirements, can replace the onfield umpires, allowing the third umpire to make the decisions based on technology's HELP.



BTW, Scally,since we are on the topic of machines replacing human beings.........care to invent a racist, ****y, 'Australia is the best, rest are crap' machine to post instead of you?
 

Scallywag

Banned
Vroomfondel said:
ok, back to topic.
--
so this means that broad doesn't trust the biomechanical engineers who thought harbhajan's action was fine? and is going back to the same people?

or does broad think that harbhajan's action has changed in 15 days?
Could also be Harbhajan changed his action when tested by the biomechanical engineers.
 

C_C

International Captain
Scallywag said:
Could also be Harbhajan changed his action when tested by the biomechanical engineers.
I doubt it, because that is an essential clause in action-evaluation.
The evaluating committee/personnel have access to past match tapes and usually have an umpire or two standing by,who have umpired in matches with the said bowler, observing the bowler's action while high tech machines take measurements.
The personnel/umpires have to certify that the bowler concerned HAS bowled in match-like conditions with the same action or else the results are nullified.

For a fast bowler, the speed he bowls at must be consistent/close to his recent matchspeed as well.

Whoever said you can bowl slow and get away with it is another crap-fer-brains.
If Harby bowled with a Murali/Prasanna action, the test would be automatically invalidated...likewise if Shoaib bowled at 130kph.

I would personally like to see Brett lee and Afridi referred as well, as their action looks dubious through the naked eye.
 

C_C

International Captain
honestbharani said:
Bharani, scally is wrong by contradiction. If anyone reads the ICC biomechanical test clauses, they will automatically come to the conclusion that you CANNOT bowl with a different action or much less spin/pace and get away with it.....
 

Scallywag

Banned
honestbharani said:
BTW, Scally,since we are on the topic of machines replacing human beings.........care to invent a racist, ****y, 'Australia is the best, rest are crap' machine to post instead of you?
a machine wont get the pleasure I get from talking to a whinging whining indian sook. :D :D :D
 

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