Am I the only one here who rates Sunil Gavaskar slightly above Viv Richards in Test?

[capt_Luffy]

Was that mentioned in the article as well?

And yes, it was repugnant and made me look at him differently tbh.

Yes, it was mentioned...... In the Part 1 of the article.

 

[Slifer]

Pakistan should have won that series in 88

And WI should have won in Pakistan in 1986.

 

[BazBall21]

And WI should have won in Pakistan in 1986.

Perhaps, but Pakistan winning would have been a more iconic result simply because the Windies were such a dominant force.

 

[number11]

Pakistan were a fine side in the 80s.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Gavaskar easily in the top ten batters ever. Probably one of the best ever in the SC, and brilliant in WI(not as good as Amaranth level tho). I rate Viv above him cause I don’t feel Gavaskar was that good by ATG standards in England(outside one series, very poor) or Aus or NZ(where outside one series where he scored a ton when Hadlee was not bowling, he didn’t do that well). And cause of the intangibles associated with Richards, his peak and his SR, the which outweighs the opener tax.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Gavaskar easily in the top ten batters ever. I rate Viv above him cause I don’t feel Gavaskar was that good by ATG standards in England(outside one series, very poor) or Aus or NZ(where outside one series where Hadlee was not that big of a challenge, he didn’t do that well). And cause of the intangibles associated with Richards, his peak and his SR, the which outweighs the opener tax

Gavaskar also had a better century conversion rate than Viv though. And well, Gavaskar in Pakistan= Viv in England and vice versa for me; Gavaskar vs WI is slightly behind Viv against Australia, Gavaskar didn't really did anything wrong in Australia and was for the most part good in England as well.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Gavaskar also had a better century conversion rate than Viv though. And well, Gavaskar in Pakistan= Viv in England and vice versa for me; Gavaskar vs WI is slightly behind Viv against Australia, Gavaskar didn't really did anything wrong in Australia and was for the most part good in England as well.

Agree on the first comparison. But for me Viv is amongst the three or four best touring batsmen to Aus. So he’s a fair bit ahead of Gavaskar in WI. Also Gavaskar averaged sub 30 in Eng apart from one series, so for most of the part except a high scoring series didn’t do well there. He wasn’t bad in Australia, just not tested enough

 

[kyear2]

I really don't think it's close, Viv is one of the contenders for best after Bradman, Sunny just isn't in the conversation.

It's as simple as that really

 

[capt_Luffy]

Agree on the first comparison. But for me Viv is amongst the three or four best touring batsmen to Aus. So he’s a fair bit ahead of Gavaskar in WI. Also Gavaskar averaged sub 30 in Eng apart from one series, so for most of the part except a high scoring series didn’t do well there. He wasn’t bad in Australia, just not tested enough

Well, doesn't Viv averages 45 without 1976?? And I am not comparing Viv in Australia to Gavaskar in WI, but Viv vs Australia and Gavaskar vs WI; which I think are pretty close. That series was an ATG though and Viv also struggled mostly in Pakistan outside of one series, though he indeed was better than Sunny in England; but Sunny's 78 England was better than Viv's imo. And it's not really like he didn't had other notable innings in England; like a 104 in Old Trafford.

 

[trundler]

Well, doesn't Viv averages 45 without 1976?? And I am not comparing Viv in Australia to Gavaskar in WI, but Viv vs Australia and Gavaskar vs WI; which I think are pretty close. That series was an ATG though and Viv also struggled mostly in Pakistan outside of one series, though he indeed was better than Sunny in England; but Sunny's 78 England was better than Viv's imo. And it's not really like he didn't had other notable innings in England; like a 104 in Old Trafford.

have*

 

[h_hurricane]

Viv Richards is my all time favorite batsman and imho the best I have seen.

Gavaskar is unfairly maligned at times in this forum though. Quite simply the best opening batsman in the last 70 years and a top tier ATG.

 

[kyear2]

Viv Richards is my all time favorite batsman and imho the best I have seen.

Gavaskar is unfairly maligned at times in this forum though.

Is he though? Most see him as top 10, borderline there at worse and a top 4 opener of all time.

 

[trundler]

Is he though? Most see him as top 10, borderline there at worse and a top 4 opener of all time.

Ignoring you, no. One can pretty readily identify why you attempt to diminish Gavaskar in much the same way as Imran.

I keep reminding you that having Gavaskar in the best after Bradman bracket isn't some revisionist hipster opinion given how highly guys like Hutton, Sobers and Benaud rated him.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Well, doesn't Viv averages 45 without 1976?? And I am not comparing Viv in Australia to Gavaskar in WI, but Viv vs Australia and Gavaskar vs WI; which I think are pretty close. That series was an ATG though and Viv also struggled mostly in Pakistan outside of one series, though he indeed was better than Sunny in England; but Sunny's 78 England was better than Viv's imo. And it's not really like he didn't had other notable innings in England; like a 104 in Old Trafford.

Agreed, mostly, but I don’t think Viv in Australia which is an ATG level performance is close to Gavaskar in WI. And Sunny in SC is far superior to Richards, same way Richards is far superior to Sunny in Aus and Eng, but to me Richards is that tiny bit more proven in the SC. Gavaskar by ATG standards is unproven in Aus and NZ, and outside one series really struggled in England. I would say Viv’s 1980 performance against Pak was better given the high scoring nature of the pitches in Sunny’s tour and that Viv had to contend with Peak Imran, Qadir etc.

 

[BazBall21]

Pakistan were a fine side in the 80s.

Yeah they were. I just think if they won that series, it would have been one of the most iconic results ever. And it sounds like it wouldn't have been undeserved.

Pak in the 80s were a top side with tough characters at the helm. I wonder if the 90s team wouldn't have underachieved so much if they had a presence at the top as professional and focused as Imran.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Viv at his best was better than Gavaskar at his best. Similar to how Ponting’s best was better than Dravid’s best.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Vi at his best was better than Gavaskar at his best. Similar to how Ponting’s best was better than Dravid’s best.

Yep one of the reasons I rate Viv higher is cause his peak from 76-80 was the best bar Bradman

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea I rate Viv and Ponting higher now than I used to because of their peaks

 

[kyear2]

Ignoring you, no. One can pretty readily identify why you attempt to diminish Gavaskar in much the same way as Imran.

I keep reminding you that having Gavaskar in the best after Bradman bracket isn't some revisionist hipster opinion given how highly guys like Hutton, Sobers and Benaud rated him.

Genuinely interested as why I malign Imran, far less Gavaskar.

I would propose that having Gavaskar in that bracket is much more of a "hipster" position that not having him.

I've seen lots of best after Bradman lists on this forum over the years, can't think of more than a handful where he's on them, far less ahead of Smith, Richards, Lara, even Hutton.

Actually there were many in the 80's that even rated Barry higher, and no, that's not hyperbole.

But please tell me why I malign Sunny and Imran, I'm greatly interested to hear.

I have Sunny in the top ten and in the same tier as guys like Chappell, Ponting, Hammond etc.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Bradman

Hobbs
Sobers
Tendulkar
Viv
Lara
(Smith potentially)

Hutton
Gavaskar
Hammond
Chappell
Ponting
(Kohli potentially)