shortpitched713
International Captain
Lack of neutral umpires, for mine.
Honestly, looking at footage, away tours tended throughout the world tended to be horrible in the pre neutral umpires days. Couldn't buy lbws back then.
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Am I the only one here who rates Sunil Gavaskar slightly above Viv Richards in Test?
- Thread starter capt_Luffy
- Start date
Honestly, looking at footage, away tours tended throughout the world tended to be horrible in the pre neutral umpires days. Couldn't buy lbws back then.
kyear2
International Coach
Has to be a reason beyond Coronis astute take of they just all played badly.
shortpitched713
International Captain
And South Africa had a huge gap in Tests anyway (corresponding to a time when WI bowlers were most dominant), so not too sure what to make of that. Ultimately all of Australia, India, Pakistan, New Zealand were dodgy as ****, from what I saw. WI probably was as well, if the stats back it up.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
BazBall21
International Captain
CricketingView did this. I should have credited. Australia and WI are bang level. I put Australia ahead because WI gave a higher volume of LBWs both ways. Probably partially because their pitches aren't as fast though.
Javed Miandad was probably a leading beneficiary of home umpires irrespective of this chart. The disparity between his home and away averages halfway through his career is the largest in the history of the game.
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kyear2
International Coach
Referencing the four mentioned, and this is just from stories I've read or heard. And not saying there weren't others.
Australia, from talking to past test players the issue, especially with Lillee wasn't so much the LBWs, it was uncalled over stepping the front crease, and not by small margins, running down the middle of the pitch on his follow through, he was just allowed to do what ever he wanted.
For India, the first story I heard of was Marshall being brought to tears on his first tour and vowing not to return. There was also the caught behind off Gavaskar that according to the article, everyone heard but the umpire. Imran also used India as his main reason for requesting neutral umpires, as he believe he never got fair decisions over there.
Pakistan, I'll keep this brief. The main two stories that were whispered in the '80s were that Javed couldn't get LBW decisions given against him at home. Then there was Imran and the lack of vigilance with regards to ball safety, and the home LBW issue as well. I know the latter is greatly disputed by Smali, Trundler and ORS but it was something that was discussed. And Pakistan umpiring was also the source of contention on various tours during the era.
New Zealand, especially against us, were the absolute worst. What has to be mentioned though, is that Hadlee's average didn't have any substantive difference between home and away, so that may have to be factored in as well.
Though they weren't mentioned, I know that Pakistani's reference a match where a LBW decisions went against them that cost them the victory what would have won them a series against the WI.
Again, from my perspective and everyone would have their own.
trundler
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Wow damn West Indian umpires were as corrupt as the rest? I was led to believe otherwise.
kyear2
International Coach
It also because our umpires were not good, and they took equal heat from the local populace as well. Barker was borderline incompetent and even in the era of neutral umpires, Bucknor, depending on perspective, either stayed on too long or was just the worse of the era.
kyear2
International Coach
Why is SL no 1 though? Wasn't it just because of the extra turn the pitches provided to Murali? Or because the umpires were willing to give decisions other countries wouldn't?
I've seen some examples of bad umpiring, but it generally seemed to go against both teams
kyear2
International Coach
Right in cue.
The thing is though, that most of the players had similar if not identical averages both home and away, which means the "corruption" couldn't have been that impactful or helpful.
Plus believe Baz qualified the results with a higher amount of LBW decisions given for both teams.
Go figure.
BazBall21
International Captain
I've watched a lot of footage of Caribbean cricket from the 80s. Sometimes, WI umpires were giving LBWs (that were clearly too high) without any appeals. WI don't seem to be aggressive appealers by nature (except Viv) but it was inexplicable viewing at times.
BazBall21
International Captain
Pakistan should have won that series in 88
OverratedSanity
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Don't Sobers and Lara have much better home records than away?
BazBall21
International Captain
Three Ws
kyear2
International Coach
Yes, Viv was the worse tbh. He was up there with Lillee and the Australians in that regard.
Coronis
International Coach
Some players have **** countries where they don’t succeed. Whether their tours there coincide with bad form or they end up with bad matchups or they just have bad luck. Also “lol sample size”. Blaming it all on umpires is just a pathetic crutch. Garner has an excellent record in New Zealand. Greenidge’s is also excellent.
Conversely, Garner was relatively crap against NZ at home, whereas Marshall destroyed them.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Batting or Bowling?
kyear2
International Coach
Meant from the 70's and 80's. Primarily the bowlers and specifically Marshall and Viv. Same way I referenced Hadlee being equally good home and away.
Sobers was better at home because the WI had the only ridiculously flat pitches in the 50's and 60's. Not only was his batting average better, but so was all visitors as well. Same with everyone's bowling averages. The pitch he scored his world record in had two scores over 300. Look at his peak from the other thread, bowling numbers home and away was stark. Keith Miller scored most of his hundreds in the WI and his bowling numbers struggled.
Lara, ARG. Plus he played all of his career in the full tv era for all of us to see and didn't he play in the era of neutral umpires?
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