Alastair Cook vs Graham Gooch?

[Cabinet96]

Not directly relevant, but I was thinking of making a thread on this the other day. Would you consider Cook an ATG? If not what does he have to do to become one. And regardless, how would you rate him with the other best openers of the era, Hayden, Smith, Sehwag, etc.

 

[Zinzan]

Not directly relevant, but I was thinking of making a thread on this the other day. Would you consider Cook an ATG? If not what does he have to do to become one. And regardless, how would you rate him with the other best openers of the era, Hayden, Smith, Sehwag, etc.

Similar to someone like Martin Crowe for me (even though he's been more prolific) in that he's definitely one of the greats of his era without being quite an ATG.

Note: Depends how one defines an 'ATG' I suppose. Some are more liberal with that term than others.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Not directly relevant, but I was thinking of making a thread on this the other day. Would you consider Cook an ATG? If not what does he have to do to become one. And regardless, how would you rate him with the other best openers of the era, Hayden, Smith, Sehwag, etc.

He's been the best English Bat for many a year but we don't really produce ATG bats. If he goes back to 2006-2012 form for the rest of his career he has a chance of being an ATG imo.

 

[Howe_zat]

Takeaway pizzas are great, Mad Max: Fury Road is great, Nutella is great, Cook is great

 

[sledger]

Depends where you get the takeaway pizza from, surely.

 

[Coronis]

Depends where you get the takeaway pizza from, surely.

Nope.

 

[sledger]

Nah, I had one from a place called Istanbul Grill once. Not advisable. The damn thing was wet with grease.

Also, avoid doner kebab pizzas.

 

[Dan]

Nah, I had one from a place called Istanbul Grill once. Not advisable. The damn thing was wet with grease.

Also, avoid doner kebab pizzas.

?

 

[Furball]

He's been the best English Bat for many a year but we don't really produce ATG bats. If he goes back to 2006-2012 form for the rest of his career he has a chance of being an ATG imo.

Incidentally during this period of form Cook went 14 months without a Test ton as well.

Also, you know how people occasionally hold the fact that Anderson spends half his career bowling in friendly home conditions? Why is it that no-one applies the same standard to Cook when it comes to his average and how opening in England is generally harder than most other countries (averages 43 in England vs 50 outside England.)

 

[Pothas]

Nah, I had one from a place called Istanbul Grill once. Not advisable. The damn thing was wet with grease.

Also, avoid doner kebab pizzas.

Had a doner calzone in Scarborough last year. Nearly killed me, the huge amount of raw of onion in it just made it that extra bit special.

 

[Cabinet96]

Incidentally during this period of form Cook went 14 months without a Test ton as well.

Also, you know how people occasionally hold the fact that Anderson spends half his career bowling in friendly home conditions? Why is it that no-one applies the same standard to Cook when it comes to his average and how opening in England is generally harder than most other countries (averages 43 in England vs 50 outside England.)

It's why I raised the question about him v Hayden, who struggled in England.

 

[GIMH]

Furball's counter-argument for Zaheer's record in India applies though, no? Cook spent his youth learning to play in England

Devils advocate, because I love me some Cookie

 

[Furball]

Absolutely, I'm just pointing out double standards, because I guarantee the same morons who call Jimmeh "Clouderson" and other hilarious nicknames won't afford Cook the luxury of going "well he batted in England, ball does a bit more there so naturally his average will suffer compared to someone who opens in Australia half the time". The same double standard does apply to Zaheer, if people want to criticise Indian batsmen for being flat track bullies on tracks where the ball doesn't bounce, then they have to acknowledge that Zaheer bowled on those same tracks and did well.

My argument about Zaheer actually applies more to the great Pakistani quick bowlers. I've seen some people argue that Wasim, and Imran's records are even better than mere statistics suggest because they spent half their careers bowling in Pakistan, which completely ignores that a) both bowlers were pretty much amazing everywhere and b) their records in Pakistan are better than in traditionally bowler friendly countries, which indicates that they adapted their game to bowl brilliantly at home first and foremost.

 

[Furball]

Having said that, I think opening batsmen from England and South Africa deserve a little bit of leeway with their records because the conditions in both countries are more difficult for fast bowlers. When utter diddies like Sreesanth can look threatening in those conditions then you know as an opening batsman it's going to be harder opening there than anywhere else in the world.

 

[weldone]

?

'Cook'ed?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Out of interest, how would those that were there rate Gooch and the other best batsmen of the 80s and early 90s against spin bowling? As I've heard that there was rather a dearth at the time, until Warne, Murali and Kumble came along.

I reckon Miandad would have done pretty well against the 1990s/2000s spinners. He was as good a player of spin as anyone since.

 

[robelinda]

Cook is an all time great. No doubt for me. Averages more away from home. Every batsman goes through a lean trott in a long 10+ year career, dont mean sh*t.

 

[viriya]

I think there's not much between the two. Gooch batted during a tougher run-making time.

cricrate | Graham Gooch vs Alastair Cook

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Cook definitely has the superior jawline

 

[GIMH]

I think there's not much between the two. Gooch batted during a tougher run-making time.

cricrate | Graham Gooch vs Alastair Cook

Not in this lifetime was Cook's 294 his best innings