Alastair Cook vs Graham Gooch?

[kyear2]

lol

Some great videos as usual Rob.

 

[L Trumper]

To be fair to the squeaky-voiced, moustachioed one he was undisputably the best batsman in the world for a period in the early 90s, even if it was a relatively brief 18-24 month window. & he was facing some pretty serious bowling attacks too.

Over the course of their careers as a whole it'll look like a total non-brainer, but I'm not sure we've ever been able to call Cook the head honcho so far.

Meh. Gooch was playing for 15 years by that time. And he is more or less became the best by default due to the retirements of all 70s-80s greats, and by 93-94 Tendulkar, Lara came to their own and Gooch was done for. I can guarantee that Cook will be considered the best batsmen in the world at some point in future. In fact I don't think it is even a contest between these two, cook is so far ahead (or he will be). Only thing in Gooch's favor is his 154*, something like that is simply not repeatable.

 

[uvelocity]

warner is younger than c00k therefore c00k will never be the best batsman in the world

 

[kyear2]

Meh. Gooch was playing for 15 years by that time. And he is more or less became the best by default due to the retirements of all 70s-80s greats, and by 93-94 Tendulkar, Lara came to their own and Gooch was done for. I can guarantee that Cook will be considered the best batsmen in the world at some point in future. In fact I don't think it is even a contest between these two, cook is so far ahead (or he will be). Only thing in Gooch's favor is his 154*, something like that is simply not repeatable.

Agree, once Cook continues in this vein, he will be considered (much) better than Gooch.

 

[watson]

I wonder how Cook would have gone against Terry Alderman? One would hope better than Gooch.

Terry Alderman - Swing Genius vs England 1989 - YouTube

Unfortunately the 1981 Ashes series where Gooch averaged 13.90 (5 Tests), and the 1989 Ashes where he averaged 20.33 (5 Tests) are major blemishes on an otherwise distinguished career because they highlight Gooch's lack of technique/footwork against good swing bowling.

However, at this this point in time I would still have to favour Gooch over Cook (just). The list of bowlers that dismissed Gooch reads like the Who's Who of bowling;

01. Marshall
02. Kapil Dev
03. McDermott
04. Lillee
05. Alderman
06. Holding
07. Warne
08. Hogg
09. Lawson
10. Hadlee
11. Garner
12. Patterson
13. Ambrose
14. Doshi
15. Prabhakar
etc

HowSTAT! Player Dismissal Analysis

 

[smash84]

I thnk you may have missed Wasim and Waqar and Walsh in that list

 

[watson]

I thnk you may have missed Wasim and Waqar and Walsh in that list

Walsh dismissed Gooch 3 times so he is 23rd on the list.

Wasim and Waqar come in at 26th and 27th respectively after dismissing Gooch twice each.

(Didn't feel like typing the names of all 71 bowlers)

 

[smash84]

oh ok....fair enough....I thought it was a random list

 

[watson]

oh ok....fair enough....I thought it was a random list

Yeah, it does seem odd that Rodney Hogg or Patrick Patterson claimed Gooch's wicket more times than Courtney Walsh I guess.

 

[kyear2]

Though judging from one of the video's Rob posted Waqar should have taken his wicket at least one more time.

 

[Red]

Gooch was always one of my favourites. I'd take him over Cook any day.

 

[fredfertang]

Gooch was always one of my favourites. I'd take him over Cook any day.

It's a lot closer to my mind now, but ultimately I would too, certainly against an unrelenting fast attack - memories of his great days against the WIndies pace pack are still strong

 

[Hurricane]

warner is younger than c00k therefore c00k will never be the best batsman in the world

should say your faith in warner to go number 1 in the long term bets thread,

 

[LegionOfBrad]

I thought i'd give this a bump as depending on the weather this could be the day that Cookie goes past Gooch. Probably about a year later than most people thought in this thread originally.

Obviously it wasn't 154* but his innings in the last match was pretty bloody special.

 

[morgieb]

Gooch is the better player. That said he only was really good in his late 30's...so who knows.

 

[Howe_zat]

If Cook had the same benefit of people only remembering his best innings out of lengthy career, England threads would be a lot easier on the eye

 

[LegionOfBrad]

@Howe_Zat agree.

He'll never get the chance to play a 154* as it is anyway.

 

[GIMH]

Barring disaster, he'll take the record in fewer Tests than it took Gooch, and at a better average. Obviously there is a quality of attack faced discussion to be had (or perhaps not...) but any accusation that he earns this record by virtue of turning up is to be dismissed. Not mentioning any names, Athlai.

I mean that aside from the fact that to open the batting for 100+ tests for England in itself is no mean feat (okay he played a bunch of Tests at three, seven maybe, whatever).

 

[Cabinet96]

Out of interest, how would those that were there rate Gooch and the other best batsmen of the 80s and early 90s against spin bowling? As I've heard that there was rather a dearth at the time, until Warne, Murali and Kumble came along.

So did this ever get answered? Pretty relevant given Cook's greatest achievement is probably the India series.

 

[Cabinet96]

Barring disaster, he'll take the record in fewer Tests than it took Gooch, and at a better average. Obviously there is a quality of attack faced discussion to be had (or perhaps not...) but any accusation that he earns this record by virtue of turning up is to be dismissed. Not mentioning any names, Athlai.

I mean that aside from the fact that to open the batting for 100+ tests for England in itself is no mean feat (okay he played a bunch of Tests at three, seven maybe, whatever).

Was the only decent three we had from 05 to 2010 as well.

Cliched to always say this, but the next seven or so months are pretty big for Cook in how he'll be rated. Has had impressive series in this current one and the previous one in the Windies and is showing signs of form. Next three series will also be really hard, any serious runs in them would be really impressive. Equally if he has a poor time Australia at home, South Africa and the UAE will probably become legitimate holes in his career to hold against him.