Adam Voges Retires from Internationals

[Spikey]

Voges. An announcement for retirement. He is trying to troll us.

there wasn't really a retirement. he was just sorta "hey this is last time I'll be taking on an international team". it's not like he got the executive press conference

 

[SeamUp]

there wasn't really a retirement. he was just sorta "hey this is last time I'll be taking on an international team". it's not like he got the executive press conference

Of course - I was just going with all the headlines and it fits in with his 2nd highest test average of all time. Makes it quite hilarious on his part if there was some sort of 'announcement' but even the "hey this is last time I'll be taking on an international team" is quite hilarious too. Who does he think he is ? Bradman's pursuer ? He basically gave the Zap to RG Pollock by just bringing up his final international appearance.

 

[Kirkut]

He should have retired straight after NZ tour. Would have owned everyone barring Bradman.

 

[burr]

It's hard to argue against having two divisions for tests in order to protect the sanctity of historical records and stats when you look at Voges's final standing in the batting averages.


That said, he is a good example of why the Aus selectors shouldn't be throwing guys on a scrapheap just because they've hit 32+ years old. Getting a solid two years out of them is better than nothing.

He's a good example of why we should (granted, I did love Bucky). What did we get out of him in those 2 years? Absolutely nothing in the 10 matches against decent opposition in series we lost. In the series we won he cashed in and with another player we would have won regardless. So yes Adam, you were ****. Your mediocre record shines through the misleading statistics and your 'retirement' from internationals elicits mirth.

 

[burr]

In all honesty what did he actually do for us in terms of winning cricket? In Australia our cricket culture is very winning-focused, not that every country's isn't, but certainly Australia more so than some others which often seem to be more individual-focused.

Voges made a **** load of runs in matches that we would have won easily anyway (West Indies, New Zealand) and failed utterly when he might have helped his side win (England, Sri Lanka). The one exception I can think of to this is his debut in WI where he made a brilliant ton when no one else could score a run.

No doubt he achieved what he did, and he outperformed some very, very good players during that time against the same opposition they were playing against. Of course it's hard to quantify the value of having him around the squad and in the dressing room, but how much did he really do to help the Australian cricket team as a player?

Probably a bit harsh but still

Exactly. And no, not at all harsh.

 

[Bijed]

Tbh I just reckon he's a been unfortunate to only have a short a test career as he did. Not just because he was probably good enough to have a lengthy and solid run in the test side, but because his distorted average is probably, ironically, going to bring him more criticism than if he just hadn't done very well. I mean, if he'd been called up, struggled and been cast off again people would in all likelihood be saying "Voges, could have been good but was unlucky to only get the chance once he was well past his best" or things along those lines, as he'd be in a far from unique situation. Now some people appear genuinely angry at him (my dad for example is absolutely fuming at the statistical fame he has achieved) as a result of the high scores he made along the way. I mean, what was he supposed to do, deliberately not score runs against WI just so his average would be a more accurate reflection of his ability?

That said, I guess he's not actually directly, personally on the receiving end of much of the criticism of him and I'd imagine he's just pleased to have had the test career that he did.

Edit: For clarity, I'm not disputing the view that his actual contribution to Australian Test success has been anything but small outside of his debut ton

 

[Midwinter]

He was lucky that I wasn't a selector.

He should have been dropped for last test of the Ashes series, he had failed to score runs in the conditions that he had more experience in than the rest of the team, having played several seasons of county cricket in England.
It was a horses for courses selection that failed.

But he made 50 odd in that last test and then had that glorious summer.

Good on him.

Well played Mr Voges

 

[stephen]

I think Voges would have been a mid 40s average player if he'd been picked at 25 and had a decade long career. It's a shame that he didn't get longer but like many Australians in the last two decades he was wasted behind a bunch of all time great players.

Rogers had a better career than Voges in similar circumstances but it's not like Voges didn't deserve his chances.

He'll be more remembered for his flukey high average than anything else which is a shame because he could have had a lot of success if picked earlier.

 

[mr_mister]

yeah I too thought this guy was ****ing hopeless halfway through the ashes, crazy he manged to average 100 after that series which must have hurt his average a fair bit, he had plenty of low scores in i t. So many not outs since then though lol

 

[mr_mister]

Voges 20 test career split into 3 thirds (he only batted in 19 of those tests)


Batting Average for first 6 tests: 41
Batting Average for middle 7 tests: 150
Batting Average for final 6 tests: 15

 

[Red]

I think Voges would have been a mid 40s average player if he'd been picked at 25 and had a decade long career. It's a shame that he didn't get longer but like many Australians in the last two decades he was wasted behind a bunch of all time great players.

Rogers had a better career than Voges in similar circumstances but it's not like Voges didn't deserve his chances.

He'll be more remembered for his flukey high average than anything else which is a shame because he could have had a lot of success if picked earlier.

Exactly. If you take out the two double centuries (I know, I know) his averages is gonna be somewhere in the low 40s which is probably where it should have been for a guy like him.

What it does do is clearly show how making centuries go really big can boost your average big time. I mean Bradman had 12 scores of 200 plus in only 80 innings, plus another six scores of 150 plus.

 

[marc71178]

I think Voges would have been a mid 40s average player if he'd been picked at 25 and had a decade long career. It's a shame that he didn't get longer but like many Australians in the last two decades he was wasted behind a bunch of all time great players.

Oh yes, the legions of all time great middle order batsmen Australia have had in the last 5-10 years really did hurt Voges...

 

[Red]

Oh yes, the legions of all time great middle order batsmen Australia have had in the last 5-10 years really did hurt Voges...

I think there's a hint of sarcasm in there but for the last decade there's been Ponting, Clarke, Hussey, Watson, Smith, North and Marsh (2) all floating around.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think there's a hint of sarcasm in there but for the last decade there's been Ponting, Clarke, Hussey, Watson, Smith, North and Marsh (2) all floating around.

more than a hint. And that list is hardly especially impressive when compared to other countries. It's the decade before that had unlucky players far better than Watson, North and Marsh who missed out on international cricket completely.

You can't say Voges in unlucky because he was stuck behind superstars like Marcus North and Shaun Marsh.

 

[Red]

more than a hint. And that list is hardly especially impressive when compared to other countries. It's the decade before that had unlucky players far better than Watson, North and Marsh who missed out on international cricket completely.

You can't say Voges in unlucky because he was stuck behind superstars like Marcus North and Shaun Marsh.

I'm certainly not an advocate for Voges, but going back ten years when he was 27, the Australian middle order was:

Ponting - Hussey - Clarke - Symonds - Gilchrist

Even five-ish years ago it was:

Watson - Ponting - Clarke - Hussey


Not even saying Voges deserved more tests, actually think he was an average (in the true sense of the word) FC/test batsman. But he was selected very late, and I think most batsmen past 35 start to struggle a bit more at any level.

 

[SeamUp]

Whilst I do like to make a bit of fun of the situation and him , at least he wasn't a total failure like quite a few players are when they get to test level.

We then have to remember we judging him as 35-37 year-old when many better players couldnt perform at a high le el. He was just found out when there was more pace, movement and spin. It does bring up another debate about the frequency of batsman 35+ and their relative success in previous era's. It was a common occurrence at least a couple of decades after the war.

Whilst he was no Hussey/Lehmann or an unlucky sod like Hodge, Law, Love I think he would pretty chuffed with what he achieved in his career with a decent Fc average over a decent period of time.

 

[Bijed]

You can't say Voges in unlucky because he was stuck behind superstars like Marcus North and Shaun Marsh.

Actually, why wasn't he selected earlier ahead of the likes of those two? His first-class record is substantially better than theirs, I think?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Actually, why wasn't he selected earlier ahead of the likes of those two? His first-class record is substantially better than theirs, I think?

It wasn't really at the time

He was never really seriously pushing for selection (in Tests) until he averaged 100+ in the Shield in 2014-15

 

[morgieb]

Actually, why wasn't he selected earlier ahead of the likes of those two? His first-class record is substantially better than theirs, I think?

Only because of that two amazing years. Was around 40 up until about 2014.

 

[SeamUp]

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