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AB de Villiers vs Clive Lloyd

Better Test Batsman?

  • Total voters
    17
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Debutant
Johan said:
so?
what does De Villiers average at 6 and 7? and wasn't 7 innings too low a sample size for Harvey's success at 5 but it's a definitive sample size for May's failure at two positions?
Worrell played at 7 pre dominantly when he was finished, something De Villiers evaded by being a coward and retiring early and leaving South Africa in a batting Crisis they still haven't recovered from, and the same argument that De Villiers was just in his prime when batting at 5 can be made as well.
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You're missing the point. None of these points matter much. Ofc, ABD's best just coincided with batting at no 5.
And it's not just the avgs, yes he batted at an easier no5, but the guy has a more complete record at all of them. He did play in an easier batting era, but also played his home games at SA, the toughest place to bat in the period.
Great player of pace, pretty good against spin too. Could attack prime Johnson out of the bowling, or play a marathon blockade against Ashwin-Jadeja on a turner in India.
Adaptability, overall complete record, prowess in both attack and defense, and pace/spin, and hence ABD takes it. Needed a challenge to get his juices flowing, probably why he didn't statpad a bit more in the easier games, but there are very few guys better than ABD, when ABD was on it.
 
Johan

Johan

Cricketer Of The Year
Thala_0710 said:
You're missing the point. None of these points matter much. Ofc, ABD's best just coincided with batting at no 5.
And it's not just the avgs, yes he batted at an easier no5, but the guy has a more complete record at all of them. He did play in an easier batting era, but also played his home games at SA, the toughest place to bat in the period.
Great player of pace, pretty good against spin too. Could attack prime Johnson out of the bowling, or play a marathon blockade against Ashwin-Jadeja on a turner in India.
Adaptability, overall complete record, prowess in both attack and defense, and pace/spin, and hence ABD takes it. Needed a challenge to get his juices flowing, probably why he didn't statpad a bit more in the easier games, but there are very few guys better than ABD, when ABD was on it.
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Except he doesn't, Boycott has a more complete record than him while opening, he was more dominant at home and performed away from home as well just about everywhere. He also played behind Graeme Smith, Hashim Amla and Jacques Kallis — three great Batsmen and therefore got to face much more tired bowlers to what he'd have to face if he batted higher, there's a big difference coming in at 200-3 than coming in at 0-0 or 10-2 and so forth. He managed against prime Johnson? Boycott in his 40s managed against the great windies lineup while opening, he was pretty good against spin? Boycott averages more than 65 against spin, that's without taking into the account that one was in a bowling era and other in a batting era, one was playing at 5 and other was opening against dukes, one evaded his down fall while other faced it, one was selfish aka De Villiers and the other was not, one batted in an ATG lineup for most of his career while the other carried... quite a weak lineup.

and for the record, I think Boycott is inferior to everyone I listed there bar perhaps Worrell, but unlikely, and he already does everything you're gassing up De Villiers for doing but in much tougher contexts, and Yes, De Villiers stepped it up on easier games, check his record against the pathetic minnow esque West Indies lineup. Frankly put, if Boycott was Asian and De Villiers was Australian, there won't be any discussion on whose better if their records remained the same.
 
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Debutant
vidiq said:
Is it true that abd didn't have any weakness?
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You must have watched ABD right? How young are you?
He didn't technically for majority of his career. Early (first 2-3 years of his career), he did have issues against spin, but worked upon them and was a complete batsman yes. The only weakness you could say he had was that he could throw away his wicket in a silly fashion when he was dominating proceedings either due to getting bored/lack of a challenge or just lack of concentration.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
Johan said:
I mean I agree he's better than Miandad, though, I don't rate Miandad. he's not even better than Worrell, not even giving any dignity to the Weekes comment.
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Try that once more. I can rate him over Weekes very easily.
 
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Debutant
Johan said:
Except he doesn't, Boycott has a more complete record than him while opening, he was more dominant at home and performed away from home as well just about everywhere. He also played behind Graeme Smith, Hashim Amla and Jacques Kallis — three great Batsmen and therefore got to face much more tired bowlers to what he'd have to face if he batted higher, there's a big difference coming in at 200-3 than coming in at 0-0 or 10-2 and so forth. He managed against prime Johnson? Boycott in his 40s managed against the great windies lineup while opening, he was pretty good against spin? Boycott averages more than 65 against spin, that's without taking into the account that one was in a bowling era and other in a batting era, one was playing at 5 and other was opening against dukes, one evaded his down fall while other faced it, one was selfish aka De Villiers and the other was not, one batted in an ATG lineup for most of his career while the other carried... quite a weak lineup.

and for the record, I think Boycott is inferior to everyone I listed there bar perhaps Worrell, but unlikely, and he already does everything you're gassing up De Villiers for doing but in much tougher contexts, and Yes, De Villiers stepped it up on easier games, check his record against the pathetic minnow esque West Indies lineup. Frankly put, if Boycott was Asian and De Villiers was Australian, there won't be any discussion on whose better if their records remained the same.
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Abd didn't manage Johnson. He attacked the **** out of him. And calling Geoffrey unselfish is the first I've ever heard of that.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
Johan said:
Yeah, and I can get him over Gavaskar, braindeadness does not take skill.
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No seriously, there isn't much separating those two at all. Probably a few points to Weekes for batting higher, but that's about it. ABD was just built different, consistent everywhere.
 
Johan

Johan

Cricketer Of The Year
Thala_0710 said:
Abd didn't manage Johnson. He attacked the **** out of him. And calling Geoffrey unselfish is the first I've ever heard of that.
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Okay? when the best feat you can find is performing against Johnson while Boyc performed against multiple ATGs, that says a lot. and No, Boycott was not selfish, it's a dumb narrative.
 
Johan

Johan

Cricketer Of The Year
capt_Luffy said:
No seriously, there isn't much separating those two at all. Probably a few points to Weekes for batting higher, but that's about it. ABD was just built different, consistent everywhere.
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Ok, so like Kanhai? rate him with Kanhai then.
 
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Debutant
Johan said:
Okay? when the best feat you can find is performing against Johnson while Boyc performed against multiple ATGs, that says a lot. and No, Boycott was not selfish, it's a dumb narrative.
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That was an example. ABD at his best against pace was Viv level, there's a clear difference.
 
Johan

Johan

Cricketer Of The Year
capt_Luffy said:
Rich coming given Weekes had single decent tour of a moderately strong country and had roads worse than early 2020s Pakistan.
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does this finally prove that Jim Laker was an excellent flat track spinner? or are you going to make the wickets spin friendly again now that Laker found success on them?
 
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