AB de Villers vs Michael Bevan vs Sachin Tendulkar

[The Sean]

My default position - like most of us in these parts - is always to assess cricketers by their Test performances first and foremost with ODI brilliance as kind of a bonus, and Tendulkar is no exception. That being said, there's no question in my mind that his performances as an ODI opener are more astounding than those as a Test number 4.

 

[CricAddict]

Longevity is also a big factor if you want to compare Sachin with anyone.

Averaging 50 over 30 odis is easier than averaging 40 over 300 odis.

 

[Teja.]

I think SRT is still the clear second best ODI batsman ever after Viv.

The fact that he's the best ODI opener ever by a country mile is a neat part of the argument but his dominance over all other top/middle order batsmen for a huge part of his career as well as his longevity are even stronger things in his favour.

In a way SRT is unlucky not to be the best ODI batsman despite his immense CV but Viv was playing a completely different game in ODIs compared to everybody else during his career.

 

[honestbharani]

I think SRT is still the clear second best ODI batsman ever after Viv.

But it is still possible to think this way and pick ABD if you think the next best for that slot is not as good as the next best for the ODI openers' slot, IMO.

 

[subshakerz]

Both AB and Bevan were more era-specific in their success, whereas Tendulkar crossed eras in his greatness.

AB scored majority of his runs in an era when it was the best time ever for batting in LOIs. Not to say he wouldnt be successful in the 90s but not quite as runaway. And honestly, can't remember any major knock from him in a critical match.

Bevan's MO in the 90s was very specific. When the top order was taken out, Bevan would manage the chase for a tricky target by shielding the tail and maintaining the pace, or rebuild an innings to a respectable score when the top order has been taken out.

He lacked the extra gear for smacking/slogging and scoring 50 off 5 overs which rarely happened as there werent many high chases at that time. I dont think he would be as exclusively useful in the post-2000s run buffet.

 

[Red]

My ODI all time top six is:

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Richards
Kohli
DeVilliers

so my answer is Bevan would be first to go. I think Sachin is more replaceable than AB, so it’s AB.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Bevan - premium great, still a league below AB and Sachin.

ABdV - arguably GOAT ODI Batsman along with Sachin and Viv. ( exceptional avg + exceptional SR club) ( Abbas lacks longevity)

Sachin - GOAT ODI Batsman and 2nd greatest overall ( after Akram ) IMO.

So, Sachin it is.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Top 10 Bats
Sachin, Viv
AB
Kohli
Dhoni
Lara
Ponting, Bevan, Abbas
Jones

 

[Gob]

My ODI all time top six is:

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Richards
Kohli
DeVilliers

so my answer is Bevan would be first to go. I think Sachin is more replaceable than AB, so it’s AB.

Huh I always felt there's no room for Ponting now since both AB and Kohli surpassed him as middle order batsmen but it never occurred to me that you could have gone down this road. This also justifies Gilchrist the keepers inclusion over Dhoni despite Dhoni being superior OD bat. I assume you'd have a genuine bowling all rounder like Kapil, Flintoff etc at 7 because batting depths are there.

Good line up. This will be my atg OD line up from here on

 

[Gob]

It's also interesting that despite being the most successful OD nation by a distance, Aus do not have a shoe in great for the ATG OD side. All of WI, India, Pak, Sl and SA have atleast one

Interesting

 

[stephen]

Both AB and Bevan were more era-specific in their success, whereas Tendulkar crossed eras in his greatness.

AB scored majority of his runs in an era when it was the best time ever for batting in LOIs. Not to say he wouldnt be successful in the 90s but not quite as runaway. And honestly, can't remember any major knock from him in a critical match.

Bevan's MO in the 90s was very specific. When the top order was taken out, Bevan would manage the chase for a tricky target by shielding the tail and maintaining the pace, or rebuild an innings to a respectable score when the top order has been taken out.

He lacked the extra gear for smacking/slogging and scoring 50 off 5 overs which rarely happened as there werent many high chases at that time. I dont think he would be as exclusively useful in the post-2000s run buffet.

This is dramatically under playing Bevan's abilities.

He was perfectly capable of finding the boundary and struck at a rate ahead of his contemporaries when batting first (his strike rate batting first was 80). He slowed in chases to the rate he needed to strike at top win the match. He wasn't concerned with his stats so much as he was concerned with winning.

The other thing that needs to be considered is that he played the majority of his cricket on Australian grounds, which have been some of the lowest scoring grounds in the world due to their size. Hitters like Andrew Symonds were significantly disadvantaged on Australian grounds and indeed many of Bevan's contemporary Australian batsmen have worse home statistics than away statistics. It's a lot easier to clear the boundary on a postage stamp than at the MCG.

Bevan was extraordinary and overshadowed everyone he played with or against until his decline circa 2002.

Edit: here are the grounds sorted by average run rate. All of the top 6 Australian grounds are in the bottom half of run rates.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs_per_over;qualmin1=20;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=aggregate;view=ground

 

[TheJediBrah]

Huh I always felt there's no room for Ponting now since both AB and Kohli surpassed him as middle order batsmen but it never occurred to me that you could have gone down this road. This also justifies Gilchrist the keepers inclusion over Dhoni despite Dhoni being superior OD bat. I assume you'd have a genuine bowling all rounder like Kapil, Flintoff etc at 7 because batting depths are there.

Good line up. This will be my atg OD line up from here on

The only way Ponting belongs in an ATG XI is if you take fielding heavily into account (which is fine). On batting alone no way he is top 6.

Just for Aus I would have all of Jones, Bevan, Smith, Hussey, Watson and maybe even Symonds ahead of him.

 

[subshakerz]

This is dramatically under playing Bevan's abilities.

He was perfectly capable of finding the boundary and struck at a rate ahead of his contemporaries when batting first (his strike rate batting first was 80). He slowed in chases to the rate he needed to strike at top win the match. He wasn't concerned with his stats so much as he was concerned with winning.

The other thing that needs to be considered is that he played the majority of his cricket on Australian grounds, which have been some of the lowest scoring grounds in the world due to their size. Hitters like Andrew Symonds were significantly disadvantaged on Australian grounds and indeed many of Bevan's contemporary Australian batsmen have worse home statistics than away statistics. It's a lot easier to clear the boundary on a postage stamp than at the MCG.

Bevan was extraordinary and overshadowed everyone he played with or against until his decline circa 2002.

Edit: here are the grounds sorted by average run rate. All of the top 6 Australian grounds are in the bottom half of run rates.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs_per_over;qualmin1=20;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=aggregate;view=ground

Bevan himself admitred that Dhoni had an advatange over him when it came to big hitting.

 

[CricAddict]

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Richards
De Villiers
Symonds
Kapil Dev
Imran Khan
Akram
Mcgrath
Murali

is my ATG ODI team.

Clive Lloyd, Jones, Kohli, Bevan, Dhoni, Hadlee, Warne, Saqlain, Waqar, Klusenar, Pollock, Garner, Jayasuriya are few other greats who deserve to be there but hard luck.

Couple of current England players might push for a place post their retirement.

 

[Gob]

The only way Ponting belongs in an ATG XI is if you take fielding heavily into account (which is fine). On batting alone no way he is top 6.

Just for Aus I would have all of Jones, Bevan, Smith, Hussey, Watson and maybe even Symonds ahead of him.

Ponting is the 3rd highest run scorer in all of OD cricket you know. Played so many clutch knocks including a world cup final ton and a shoe in for most people's ATG teams before Kohli and DeVilliers became who they were. Out of the guys you've mentioned, I'd only have Jones anywhere near him. Interested to hear your reasoning behind rating him below those guys

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ponting is the 3rd highest run scorer in all of OD cricket you know. Played so many clutch knocks including a world cup final ton and a shoe in for most people's ATG teams before Kohli and DeVilliers became who they were. Out of the guys you've mentioned, I'd only have Jones anywhere near him. Interested to hear your reasoning behind rating him below those guys

Easy answer to this is mostly just being contrary to initiate discussion but I do think "longevity" is overrated

 

[CricAddict]

Easy answer to this is mostly just being contrary to initiate discussion but I do think "longevity" is overrated

Longevity if anything is always under-rated. Just see my example above.

 

[sunilz]

It's also interesting that despite being the most successful OD nation by a distance, Aus do not have a shoe in great for the ATG OD side. All of WI, India, Pak, Sl and SA have atleast one

Interesting

McGrath is a shoe in for anybody who has watched ODI cricket particularly WC.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Huh I always felt there's no room for Ponting now since both AB and Kohli surpassed him as middle order batsmen but it never occurred to me that you could have gone down this road. This also justifies Gilchrist the keepers inclusion over Dhoni despite Dhoni being superior OD bat. I assume you'd have a genuine bowling all rounder like Kapil, Flintoff etc at 7 because batting depths are there.

Good line up. This will be my atg OD line up from here on

Lara at number 3 is far superior to Ponting.

Then there is this option..
Sachin - Lara
Viv, Kohli, AB, Dhoni

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sachin - Lara
Viv, Kohli, AB
Dhoni, Kapil, Hadlee ( or Pollock)
Akram, Saqlain, Garner

Only regret is omission of McGrath, but still have a similar bowler in Hadlee who can bat and field better.