A Tribute To Adam Gilchrist

[Matt79]

Nah, not even close to a record (Border holds that with 153 ) but I'm almost certain it's a record for a wicketkeeper.

Not having missed a Test is a famous trait of Gilchrist's, amazed you haven't noticed.

Yeah, it is for a wicketkeeper. According to Cricinfo, Boucher is the next best keeper with 75.

 

[burr]

Langer was overlooked? How about Martyn? Barely rates a mention whenever people rattle off the names of the retirees from last year.

He's remembered by the people that matter, i.e. me ; and anyone else who appreciates the fact elegance is now sorely missing from the austr. batting line up

Anyway, love the way this 'tribute' thread has gone I wonder about the approach opp. teams will take to Aust. now. I think Gilchrist was always the player they feared the most and now he's gone, it must, if only sub-consciously, be a real boost to them.

 

[Matt79]

Well, the difference is the difference in standard. Some things that are good enough for domestic level aren't for international. Nothing to do with experience or lack of experience.

Beyond question. But that's not to say those giving advice have to be experienced players - as I've said any number of times, if people want help, they can seek it from players who've just retired, or someone else. You don't need the players with loads of games to remain in the team for the players who are looking to benefit from gain of knowledge via them. Ex-players are here, there and everywhere, and often just at the end of a phone, too.

Wise heads are rarely a bad thing. But they don't need to be wise heads on the teamsheet of 11 your national team's current Test-match.

Well for one thing, it can be good to have them in your 11 because they're readily accessible on the field, or when they're batting with someone.

And getting back to the beginning of this discussion - that the selectors would have wanted to retain Hayden for his experience, even if he'd only been average in the 06/07 Ashes, regardless of your view, its a matter of record that the Australian selectors DO set a good deal of faith in the idea of having an experienced team mix.

 

[Swervy]

Don't agree - good players don't need leadership, they lead themselves. If you need leadership, you're going to get, well, not that far TBH.

Experience is hopelessly overrated. Essentially it derives from the (ludicrous) idea that younger players don't know how to bat or bowl. Often it's mistaken for the fact that players get better (not more experienced, just better) as their careers go on. Jaques, though, didn't need to - he was already a top-standard batsman as he started his Test career.

Ability, not experience, is what counts. There are some young players who are a bit stupid, but if anyone's telling me most young players don't know where to bowl the ball, or how to bat well, they're mad. But ability can, and very often is, improved throughout a player's career.

And how about when he had Greg Mail or whoever at the other end? Still seems to have gone pretty damn well then. In any case, he's scored loads of runs after Hayden's been dismissed.

I don't think Jaques is a poor enough player to be affected by who's at the other end.

I am very surprised at the way you dismiss the power of leadership.
Ian Botham (who I am sure you will not disagree was a world class player) needed stronger leadership in order to realise his potential. Some people have different drivers within them, that doesnt make them any less a player than someone else though.

I think the thing about experience is how to deal with pressure and the different situations you find youself in. Experience gives a player advantage because they will have developed methods for coping with situations.

re:'But ability can, and very often is, improved throughout a player's career.'...yes players do develop skills throughout a career, however I think the way a player deals with situations is the main reason why you see a player going from someone who scored at average of say 30 eventually average over 50 and score big consistantly.

 

[Matt79]

Gilchrist's resiliance and durability was also amazing - exemplified by the fact that despite being the clear number 2 keeper for the last 3+ years, a period when Gilly had already entered his mid-30s, Haddin has yet to be required for a single test. Unless I misheard what was being said in one of the radio tributes, he played his 96 tests without any interruptions - a record for the most tests without a miss and an amazing testimony to the guy's fitness and professionalism.

Nah, not even close to a record (Border holds that with 153 ) but I'm almost certain it's a record for a wicketkeeper.

Not having missed a Test is a famous trait of Gilchrist's, amazed you haven't noticed.

What it also is the highest number of tests played by a person who was never dropped or missed a test through unavailability. Border, Waugh and Gavaskar all played more consecutive tests, but not all of their tests were consecutive. Once Gilly came into the team, he's never come out. As I said, amazing.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Wow, absolute ripping last page from Richard here.

Oh wait, it was ****. What a surprise.

 

[Richard]

What it also is the highest number of tests played by a person who was never dropped or missed a test through unavailability. Border, Waugh and Gavaskar all played more consecutive tests, but not all of their tests were consecutive. Once Gilly came into the team, he's never come out. As I said, amazing.

Yeah, that'd make sense.

The most number of consecutive Tests to make a complete career.

 

[Richard]

Well for one thing, it can be good to have them in your 11 because they're readily accessible on the field, or when they're batting with someone.

Well, not if they don't last long enough.

And getting back to the beginning of this discussion - that the selectors would have wanted to retain Hayden for his experience, even if he'd only been average in the 06/07 Ashes, regardless of your view, its a matter of record that the Australian selectors DO set a good deal of faith in the idea of having an experienced team mix.

Hmm, Australian selectors in my experience have been most keen to pension-off players early. Boon being the most outrageous case. And TBH, Australian selectors aren't never-changing things - different people will have different perspectives. Which is what makes this "England selectors are conservative - look at 1973 for example" so totally stupid.

 

[Richard]

I am very surprised at the way you dismiss the power of leadership.
Ian Botham (who I am sure you will not disagree was a world class player) needed stronger leadership in order to realise his potential. Some people have different drivers within them, that doesnt make them any less a player than someone else though.

Brearley's leadership undoubtedly helped Botham, but I highly doubt he'd have been a nothing player without Brearley. He did still play well after Brearley left the side.

I think the thing about experience is how to deal with pressure and the different situations you find youself in. Experience gives a player advantage because they will have developed methods for coping with situations.

That's not to do with experience, that's to do with having a good head. You can have that at young or old age - I've seen no better head-on-shoulders than Bopara, and he wasn't even 21 when he first showed it, in a match with an impossibly large amount at stake. Most if not all good players have a good head on their shoulders. And that head's good whether they're young or old.

 

[Swervy]

That's not to do with experience, that's to do with having a good head. You can have that at young or old age - I've seen no better head-on-shoulders than Bopara, and he wasn't even 21 when he first showed it, in a match with an impossibly large amount at stake. Most if not all good players have a good head on their shoulders. And that head's good whether they're young or old.

Yeah Bopara has showed an ability to handle that type of situation, but there will be plenty of other circumstances he wont be able to bat to his potential yet because he won't have the experience to deal with it brilliantly.

Richard, I think you are just being aresy on this point for the sake of it. Any coach in pretty much any sport will tell you the importance of experience within a team environment. Teams with plenty of experience tend to play much more consistantly

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Has anyone yet mentioned that our Ad is the only man to hit 100 Test Matches 6's?

 

[Richard]

Yeah Bopara has showed an ability to handle that type of situation, but there will be plenty of other circumstances he wont be able to bat to his potential yet because he won't have the experience to deal with it brilliantly.

I don't think so. I think he doesn't need the experience, he's dealt with situations where many would lose their heads several times now. He's not, however, currently got the ability to be a big strokeplayer, and that's held him back so far.

Richard, I think you are just being aresy on this point for the sake of it. Any coach in pretty much any sport will tell you the importance of experience within a team environment. Teams with plenty of experience tend to play much more consistantly

They don't, though. It's a misguided perception. Teams with plenty of players who've played loads tend to be very good, yes - but that's because the players have to be good, else they wouldn't have played all those games. Experience is often mistaken simply for having a good head.

 

[NUFAN]

I don't think so. I think he doesn't need the experience, he's dealt with situations where many would lose their heads several times now. He's not, however, currently got the ability to be a big strokeplayer, and that's held him back so far.

They don't, though. It's a misguided perception. Teams with plenty of players who've played loads tend to be very good, yes - but that's because the players have to be good, else they wouldn't have played all those games. Experience is often mistaken simply for having a good head.

Yes, good head is important.

 

[JerseyGuy]

A true sportsman who played game on his terms and redefined role of a wicketkeeper batsman. His great temperament bailed Aussies out of trouble so many times ...he never seemed to be under pressure even when chips were down. His decision to start walking speaks a lot about his character. Game of cricket will surely miss him.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Can't help but feel this mantle belongs to Sangakarra.


Otherwise, good riddance to an individual who never really played the game in the right spirit.

 

[Richard]

SOC, you are familiar with nibbs of course?

 

[Son Of Coco]

He felt wrongly, if that was indeed what he felt.

I think it'd have been nice for him to go out with Langer, Warne and McGrath. That's why I'd have liked him to retire from Tests at the end of last summer.

I'm happy for him not to have retired just to see the innings in the World Cup. I think that was one of the things that made Gilly a bit special...I'd watch him fail a dozen times just to see an innings like that. He's one of the few players in the world who can get you excited just by turning up at the crease. As we saw yesterday, he tailored his innings to what the team needed and went for it...no fussing about trying to hang around. The team needed quick runs and he's always been the perfect player for that situation.

And I think he did revolutionise the game in a way...in that other teams placed a greater demand on their wicketkeeper being able to bat after seeing the value he added to the Australian team.

I'll miss watching Gilly bat, I saw him play at the MCG late last year in a state match vs Vic. We've lost another player we can genuinely feel it was a pleasure to watch.

 

[Son Of Coco]

SOC, you are familiar with nibbs of course?

Haha, yes...I've seen him in action before.

 

[Richard]

I'm happy for him not to have retired just to see the innings in the World Cup. I think that was one of the things that made Gilly a bit special...I'd watch him fail a dozen times just to see an innings like that. He's one of the few players in the world who can get you excited just by turning up at the crease. As we saw yesterday, he tailored his innings to what the team needed and went for it...no fussing about trying to hang around. The team needed quick runs and he's always been the perfect player for that situation.

Oh, Gilchrist should have played in the World Cup, absolutely no doubts there, I certainly wasn't suggesting anything else. As I said, if I were him I'd have done what McGrath did - Ashes your last Test series, WC last in ODIs. Never should Gilchrist's last game of cricket have been the SCG Test last season.

And I think he did revolutionise the game in a way...in that other teams placed a greater demand on their wicketkeeper being able to bat after seeing the value he added to the Australian team.

TBH, that value has been placed for many years, before Gilchrist. If anyone expects a Gilchrist of their own, they're expecting far too much. We're unlikely to see another Gilchrist for a generation IMO.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Oh, Gilchrist should have played in the World Cup, absolutely no doubts there, I certainly wasn't suggesting anything else. As I said, if I were him I'd have done what McGrath did - Ashes your last Test series, WC last in ODIs. Never should Gilchrist's last game of cricket have been the SCG Test last season.

TBH, that value has been placed for many years, before Gilchrist. If anyone expects a Gilchrist of their own, they're expecting far too much. We're unlikely to see another Gilchrist for a generation IMO.

I agree, and I think the search for a Gilchrist-like player caused more problems than it was worth in some cases.

I couldn't find the thread where Clarke's catching in the slips was discussed...so I'll post this here too: I see what you mean about him not being a great slips fielder after this series! I get a bit nervous when they put him in there, and he's so good in other areas of the field it seems a pity to move him.