A.F.L. Thread II

[Ausage]

I really hate that headline. What a terrible effort by the media to demonise Aker for something he didn't actually say.

FFS, he was saying that in his opinion, because of the treatment the player would cop they would be better off not making their ***uality a public issue. How does that translate into hey everybody, get a load of what this homophobe said!?

Why is it an unreasonable headline? He's suggesting gay AFL players keep their ***uality private, that translates pretty directly to "Stay in the closet. AFL isn't ready for players to be open about their ***uality"

It's a stupid argument anyway. He even references a gay man he played with that made him uncomfortable, presumably nothing would have changed in this situation if that man was publicly known to be gay.

"Locker room nudity and homo-****** activities are normal inside footy clubs." and yet a homosexual makes him uncomfortable?

 

[Mr Casson]

Why is it an unreasonable headline? He's suggesting gay AFL players keep their ***uality private, that translates pretty directly to "Stay in the closet. AFL isn't ready for players to be open about their ***uality"

It's a stupid argument anyway. He even references a gay man he played with that made him uncomfortable, presumably nothing would have changed in this situation if that man was publicly known to be gay.

"Locker room nudity and homo-****** activities are normal inside footy clubs." and yet a homosexual makes him uncomfortable?

It's an unreasonable headline because it's obviously trying to stir up a reaction.

I think that what he said was, at worst, refreshingly honest.

 

[benchmark00]

Re: Ausage-

Nah, reckon he's pretty much spot on tbh, that's not to say it's not controversial though.

All he's doing is commenting on the culture of football clubs, and in his opinion it wouldn't be an accepting environment and would, sadly, be detrimental to a players career if they did 'come out'.

 

[pasag]

Think Aker misses the wider point of how much good it would do though. Yeah it would be tough now, but they'd be paving the way for a more accepting culture in the future. His advice is basically think about yourself and not about others in the same situation as you.

Edit: it's a bit circular, the "AFL isn't ready", but they'll never be as long as everything is kept a well guarded secret.

 

[Ausage]

It's an unreasonable headline because it's obviously trying to stir up a reaction.

I think that what he said was, at worst, refreshingly honest.

It's not unreasonable because it's a pretty much direct representation of what the man said. The media can hardly be blamed for a controversial topic getting a reaction from the public.

Re: Ausage-

Nah, reckon he's pretty much spot on tbh, that's not to say it's not controversial though.

All he's doing is commenting on the culture of football clubs, and in his opinion it wouldn't be an accepting environment and would, sadly, be detrimental to a players career if they did 'come out'.

I understand what he's getting at, but I still think that long term having homosexual players out in open, at least to their team mates, is the only way to break down stereotypes in these environments. Besides I'd be very surprised if the players didn't already know or at least suspect which of their teammates was gay (something Aker even alludes to) so what's the purpose of the players themselves "hiding" it?

Then again I've never showered with 20 other men so what do I know?

Don't think it would be detrimental to their career either. It might make some of their teammates uncomfortable, it might make their lives harder in some instances, but they'd get a ton of publicity for it which is usually a pretty good move career wise.

EDIT: Pasag pretty much spot on for mine.

 

[Mr Casson]

It's not unreasonable because it's a pretty much direct representation of what the man said. The media can hardly be blamed for a controversial topic getting a reaction from the public.

It might be what he said but it's presented as though he'd rather gay players stay in the closet to make him feel better, when what he was saying is that *he thinks* they should keep it to themselves for their own sake. Can you really not see the difference between the two?

 

[benchmark00]

Nah reckon it would definitely be detrimental. A ton of publicity does not equal playing good football, in fact it's often the opposite.

He's not saying players should never come out, he's just saying the time is not right at the moment. Perhaps greater education is needed in this environment, and maybe in 5 or so years time it will be the right time.

Tom Harley (who I have my suspiscions about ftr) raised an interesting point though. He said that if there was a player at Footscray who is thinking about coming out he would feel pretty uncomfortable today.

It's what Aker does, he speaks his mind and is honest to the core.

 

[Jono]

Interesting point regarding Tom Harley. I actually do see it, particularly since he's been on Channel 7.

Or maybe its just Bruce rubbing off on him.

But love Tom Harley, such a good point. Any gay footballer at the Bulldogs would feel pretty damn uncomfortable right about now.

 

[Ausage]

It might be what he said but it's presented as though he'd rather gay players stay in the closet to make him feel better, when what he was saying is that *he thinks* they should keep it to themselves for their own sake. Can you really not see the difference between the two?

No, because frankly I don't see it being presented in the same way you clearly are. It's Jason Akermanis telling homosexual players to stay in the closet, and the headline reads "Stay in the closet: Akermanis". I don't see how you could consider that spin.

 

[benchmark00]

No, because frankly I don't see it being presented in the same way you clearly are. It's Jason Akermanis telling homosexual players to stay in the closet, and the headline reads "Stay in the closet: Akermanis". I don't see how you could consider that spin.

But the headline has not so subtle overtones, and basically suggests Aker is saying 'stay in the closet gays, we don't want you in our footy clubs!' when in reality, he's saying nothing of the sort.

 

[Mr Casson]

No, because frankly I don't see it being presented in the same way you clearly are. It's Jason Akermanis telling homosexual players to stay in the closet, and the headline reads "Stay in the closet: Akermanis". I don't see how you could consider that spin.

I didn't call it spin - you said I called it spin. I said it was an attempt to demonise him for having an opinion, and it's pretty clear to me that that's what it was.

But clearly in your mind a person having an opinion is a newsworthy story. I wonder what Barack Obama's opinion of tube socks is? Or Rafa Benitez' thoughts on the Saw franchise? Wouldn't you like to know?

 

[Mr Casson]

Any gay footballer at the Bulldogs would feel pretty damn uncomfortable right about now.

Back in yer box Griff!

 

[benchmark00]

I didn't call it spin - you said I called it spin. I said it was an attempt to demonise him for having an opinion, and it's pretty clear to me that that's what it was.

But clearly in your mind a person having an opinion is a newsworthy story. I wonder what Barack Obama's opinion of tube socks is? Or Rafa Benitez' thoughts on the Saw franchise? Wouldn't you like to know?

Strongly against them iirc.

Has dedicated a whole chapter to the topic in his upcoming memoirs.

 

[Ausage]

But clearly in your mind a person having an opinion is a newsworthy story. I wonder what Barack Obama's opinion of tube socks is? Or Rafa Benitez' thoughts on the Saw franchise? Wouldn't you like to know?

Huh? Barack Obama's opinion of tube socks is likely not of any interest to anyone. How is this analogy even remotely relevant?

It's a well known public figure making public comments about a highly controversial issue. Do you seriously think the media should not be reporting on that?

 

[Mr Casson]

Huh? Barack Obama's opinion of tube socks is likely not of any interest to anyone. How is this analogy even remotely relevant?

It's a well known public figure making public comments about a highly controversial issue. Do you seriously think the media should not be reporting on that?

Well why should anyone care about what Jason Akermanis thinks gay people should do? Leaving aside that he articulated the reasons he thinks the way he does anyway.

Tell me this: what do you think most people think when they see "Akermanis tells gays to stay in the closet"? Fair to say that most people's first reaction is not, oh he must be concerned for their welfare now is it?

I can see that you don't particularly like the guy and you're letting that influence your opinion on the topic, but that's OK. My concern here is that one of the last few blokes who knew how to speak is mind is going to get badgered into toeing the line. But then again, maybe you love the gormless interviews and endless reams of cliche that punctuate most public commentary in sport. That's your prerogative.

 

[Ausage]

Well why should anyone care about what Jason Akermanis thinks gay people should do? Leaving aside that he articulated the reasons he thinks the way he does anyway.

Tell me this: what do you think most people think when they see "Akermanis tells gays to stay in the closet"? Fair to say that most people's first reaction is not, oh he must be concerned for their welfare now is it?

If people didn't care what Jason Akermanis thinks on whatever he decides to write about he wouldn't have a job as a columnist.

My point is not how the the title makes JA look, but the fact that it's completely 100% acurrately reporting what the guy said. Sure they could have gone with a headline of "Aker thinks coming strain out too tough for gay men." but they equally could have gone with "Aker wants to play locker room homo erotica straight."

Ok, I'd make a **** sub-editor, but you get my drift.

I can see that you don't particularly like the guy and you're letting that influence your opinion on the topic, but that's OK. My concern here is that one of the last few blokes who knew how to speak is mind is going to get badgered into toeing the line. But then again, maybe you love the gormless interviews and endless reams of cliche that punctuate most public commentary in sport. That's your prerogative.

Rubbish. I only keep half an eye on the AFL, and my knowledge of Aker is that he has a funny hair cut, kicks some freakish goals and had some great battles with Jared Crouch. Have no opinion on him personally either way so there's no need for personal assumptions. I don't agree with his views and think they're humorously ironic, but as you say that's my perogative.

Your fear of a line ball talker going the way of the dodo is unfounded. As long as we the people like reading what "straight talkers" feel like saying there'll be publications wanting to print it. Controversy makes money for media outlets.

 

[benchmark00]

****, who cares, ****s.

The only irony I see here is how humorous it's going to be when we go out and bend the bulldogs over this weekend...

 

[Mr Casson]

Talking out of turn...that's a paddling. Losing to the Bulldogs...that's a paddling. Staring at my sandals...that's a paddling. Paddling the school canoe...ooh, you better believe that's a paddling.

 

[Ausage]

 

[Jono]

Casson